Red Hood & The Outlaws #17 Preview/Eventual Discussion

[Aioros22]

Yeah, I noticed that. Same sequence where Croc gives him the "don`t go that way, kid" and "stop trying to be such a hardass" peep talk. If you add that to Jason having died and coming back and "hero" writtin in the last issue you can get a nice simbolic imagery for how Soy perceives Jason to be.

A fallen angel and one trying to piece himself together.

[G-Potion]

Soy has quite a few of these little symbolism things dropped in not to mention the whole run has been making literature references so I wouldn't be surprised if this had something to do with Harvest's resting position on the cross and the whole fallen angel idea. Maybe this is suppose to reference Jason's resurrection if it's taken as the Christian cross but I can also see it about him getting back up and picking up his "wings" again because Croc is laying it out for him he has a path out of loneliness.

To add on to symbolism, I think it may be just coincidence but the last few issues have most been Bizarro bringing in new tech. It's telling this mission and the way the team splits up is again Bizarro putting Jason in a position to discover more weapons and toys. It's a nice callback to the fact Jason's first connection to Biz is getting him his toy Pup-pup.

Yes, and with Jason writing notes on those loot himself, it's like he's mentally prepared for the situation where he's alone again and has to do the tech work himself.

[Aioros22]

Future's End is Jason's natural instincts and his biggest fear at the same time.

[kiwiliko]

Yeah, I noticed that. Same sequence where Croc gives him the "don`t go that way, kid" and "stop trying to be such a hardass" peep talk. If you add that to Jason having died and coming back and "hero" writtin in the last issue you can get a nice simbolic imagery for how Soy perceives Jason to be.

A fallen angel and one trying to piece himself together.

Ohhhh this is such a good idea of imagery for Jason and more so when you consider ties to religious themes from flashpoint Jason.
I wonder if this is connected to Artemis' insistence on a prayer for the fallen that she and Harley stumble on.

[Alycat]

So someone in editorial really needs to decide on this Jason and Roy thing. Cause current Roy doesn't miss Jason at all, nor does he seem down, minus the terrible Donna thing, like this issue, implies. unless that's just a jab at how terrible Titans has been, but I felt just as bad about OG Outlaws, so yeah. Other than that it was an alright issue.

[Aioros22]

Let`s look at it this way, I see it as a subtle jab at how inneventual Titans have been and how Roy has been handled particularly. In Outlaws he was the heart of the group, in Titans he`s the guy in the background.

[Alycat]

Let`s look at it this way, I see it as a subtle jab at how inneventual Titans have been and how Roy has been handled particularly. In Outlaws he was the heart of the group, in Titans he`s the guy in the background.

To be fair everyone Titans everyone is in the background except Wally and unfortunately Donna. Even then Roy doesn't even get it that bad. That goes to Garth. He's doing pretty well in Green Arrow though and minus the Donna nonsense, he was fine, even while in the background. I suppose my problem is how one-sided it feels when Jason mentions his old pals who have not a single thought for him. Which is what fans of those characters wanted and Lobdell can't control other writers, but as someone who follows all three former members its jarring.

[Jackalope89]

So someone in editorial really needs to decide on this Jason and Roy thing. Cause current Roy doesn't miss Jason at all, nor does he seem down, minus the terrible Donna thing, like this issue, implies. unless that's just a jab at how terrible Titans has been, but I felt just as bad about OG Outlaws, so yeah. Other than that it was an alright issue.

And the latest issue of Titans resolved Roy's issue with Donna, with the two of them ending the issue holding hands. With Donna well aware of Roy's feelings. Though over in Green Arrow, Roy is more moody with Ollie, but kind of with the group.

Not really sure on the whole timeline thing, beyond Detective Comics and Action Comics happening about the same time (give or take).

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

So someone in editorial really needs to decide on this Jason and Roy thing. Cause current Roy doesn't miss Jason at all, nor does he seem down, minus the terrible Donna thing, like this issue, implies. unless that's just a jab at how terrible Titans has been, but I felt just as bad about OG Outlaws, so yeah. Other than that it was an alright issue.

It actually makes sense though. Lobdell's Roy was always someone that completely threw himself over new things to avoid facing his past (his falling out with Ollie, his break up with Kori) only looking it eye to eye when he was forced to. Jason on the other hand is someone that likes to keep things to himself and who really gets hung up over falling out with other people. So, is only natural that Jason is the one externalizing his feelings while Roy just keeps burying them .

That said, even if it would be nice for other writers to acknowledge their past, is not something I'm particularly bothered with. RHATO is a middle tier book that has never been considered by other writers before and I see no reason for that to change now, so if is acknowledged, good. If not, good. Lobdell hasn't forgotten about it and he's the one who matters, being the one steering the ship and all.

And since the other books are been mediocre to bad, I'm glad they aren't messing up with the previous stories anyways.

Oh and for the record, I've actually seen a lot people espousing the idea that Roy should go back with the Outlaws so isn't like sweeping the Outlaws under the rug is what all the fans want.

[Rakzo]

This was FANTASTIC! The different interactions between the cast is great but the highlight was without a doubt Jason and Croc, it really reveals a lot of interesting character insights and creates solid development as well.

Soy a master storytelling too. Love this.

[JasonTodd428]

From the sounds of it, I see very little complaining about Roy and those that do appear not to be keeping up with Abnett or the Titans having lost interest a while back.

That's because, like every other attempt at a Titans book, its a certifiable dud. I dropped it after four issues because it was just so bland and uninspired. Abnett's a good writer but this book just isn't up to his normal standards at all. I've a feeling that a lot of fans that are still reading it are doing it out of nostalgia more than anything else at this point.

Yeah, I noticed that. Same sequence where Croc gives him the "don`t go that way, kid" and "stop trying to be such a hardass" peep talk. If you add that to Jason having died and coming back and "hero" writtin in the last issue you can get a nice simbolic imagery for how Soy perceives Jason to be.

A fallen angel and one trying to piece himself together.

I'm really liking all the symbolic imagery here and I think you're spot on with the bolded. I also couldn't help thinking of Evangelion when saw Harvest there along with the aforementioned fallen angel and Christ-like imagery of that scene.

[HandofPrometheus]

What's the connection between Roy and Croc? They friends?

[Aioros22]

The Croc has been Roy`s sponsor in dealing with his alcohol addiction since the New52 reboot.

[G-Potion]

It actually makes sense though. Lobdell's Roy was always someone that completely threw himself over new things to avoid facing his past (his falling out with Ollie, his break up with Kori) only looking it eye to eye when he was forced to. Jason on the other hand is someone that likes to keep things to himself and who really gets hung up over falling out with other people. So, is only natural that Jason is the one externalizing his feelings while Roy just keeps burying them.

This is a pretty nice analysis!

Oh and for the record, I've actually seen a lot people espousing the idea that Roy should go back with the Outlaws so isn't like sweeping the Outlaws under the rug is what all the fans want.

I haven't seen it from tumblr yet but it's good to hear. You also have a Bleeding Cool article saying the same thing so yep, people can see it clearly if they actually read all the books concerned. On the other hand, I've been seeing a few on tumblr misreading this issue through extreme negativity. Nothing new then.

[JasonTodd428]

Oh and for the record, I've actually seen a lot people espousing the idea that Roy should go back with the Outlaws so isn't like sweeping the Outlaws under the rug is what all the fans want.

I really wish Roy would come back to the Outlaws. Titans really isn't doing anything for him anyway and Abnett is just handling him badly (actually he's handling everyone badly TBH but that's a discussion for a different thread) so I'd rather he was back under Lobdell's pen. I loved what he was doing with Roy and I felt he was getting a lot of character development in RHATO and RH/A but Abnett threw all of that out the window from the first issue of Titans Hunt.