Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 19
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,645

    Default Hawkeye #13 Review/Spoilers

    I could post my thoughts on this issue in the Kate Bishop Appreciation Thread but this book is so good - not just this issue but every issue of this run - I think there needs to be more individual attention given when an issue arrives. It's an outright crime that this book should have to struggle to find an audience. Seriously, for anyone who hasn't given it a shot yet, this book is freaking great!!!

    SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!

    To nutshell it, issue #13 is the first of Hawkeye's Legacy arc, "Family Reunion", and it fittingly brings Kate and Clint back together. Both have cases that they need the other's help on. Kate wants Clint to help her possibly-still-alive mother and Clint, as Kate finds out when the two of them are targeted while meeting outside a local pizza shop, is on someone's hit list.

    That someone is Eden Vale, a protege of the Swordman's, who we first met in the Generations: The Archers one-shot. Given that Clint's problem involves someone out to actually kill him, Kate puts her mother situation on the back burner momentarily to help Clint.

    When Clint and Kate confront Eden again after their pizza shop encounter, they find she has some kind of teleportation abilities. She also has the power to "pull" people through time as long as she possesses a sample of their blood. As she cut Kate during battle, Eden's able to pull Kate away to her HQ where she explains her vendetta against Clint (she blames Clint's rebellion against the Hydra regime for making a target out of Nevada, in which her daughter was one of the innocent civilians killed) and makes Kate an offer - help Eden kill Clint and she'll reunite Kate with her mother.

    TO BE CONTINUED!

    Issue after issue, this has been the single most effortlessly charming book out there. Writer Kelly Thompson and artist Leonardo Romero (along with colorist Jordie Bellaire) are every bit as solid a trio of collaborators as the Waid/Samnee/Wilson team. Thompson's handle on the Clint/Kate dynamic made the Generations issue on the best of those one-shots and that entertaining chemistry continues here.

    Speaking of the Generations issue, I thought those weren't supposed to have really happened so only Kate should remember it but, you know what? Doesn't matter. Maybe they are in continuity and if they aren't, that's what No-Prizes are for. Bottom line, Clint remembers his and Kate's earlier encounter with Eden.

    As usual, action and humor are in full supply here. As funny a book that this is, there's never any lack of classic superhero action, always depicted with an impeccable eye by Romero.

    It's just a great read and it really deserves a lot more love and attention from readers. Hopefully the new arc and the presence of Clint will draw some fresh attention to it.
    Last edited by Prof. Warren; 12-07-2017 at 11:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,970

    Default

    Talk about your full circle issues moments. I can't wait to see more of this storyline arc.

  3. #3
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    4,001

    Default

    Am I a bad person for trade waiting this book? Would purchasing the individual issues be a help to keeping this going? And I AM picking up the second trade when it comes out later this month.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    32,928

    Default

    I don't really buy into the Clint/Kate dynamic, but once again I think Thompson does a good job of writing both Clint and Kate and making them come off as both competent, entertaining, and even adorable together.

    I'm really starting to think they should just make Clint's current look what he wears in casual settings rather then his main costume. It just feels more appropriate for these kinds of adventures then when he's doing his Avengers stuff.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    Am I a bad person for trade waiting this book? Would purchasing the individual issues be a help to keeping this going? And I AM picking up the second trade when it comes out later this month.
    I'm sure Marvel looks at sales across the board. As long as you're supporting it in some way I'm sure it helps!

  6. #6
    Been lurking since '08
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't really buy into the Clint/Kate dynamic, but once again I think Thompson does a good job of writing both Clint and Kate and making them come off as both competent, entertaining, and even adorable together.

    I'm really starting to think they should just make Clint's current look what he wears in casual settings rather then his main costume. It just feels more appropriate for these kinds of adventures then when he's doing his Avengers stuff.
    I'm really curious why you don't "buy" into their dynamic. They make an amazing dynamic duo.

  7. #7
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    32,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    I'm really curious why you don't "buy" into their dynamic. They make an amazing dynamic duo.
    I've just never really bought into it, especially since it seems like more often then not Clint feels out-of-character when they're together (at least in my eye).

  8. #8
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Austria, Vienna
    Posts
    1,754

    Default

    I get what Frontier says. Clint always behaves differently when Kate is around. Or to make it simple: He's never more "Hawkguy" than he is when he is with Kate.
    He always seems a tad more confused, he always find himself faster in trouble and stuff like that.
    Kate on the other hand doesn't change much wether she is with him or not. Not a complaint, just an observation.

    Though, once you accept that it's a very enjoyable dynamic.

    As for the issue itself, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in Kate's thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    A few things:

    - The Arrow Clint uses is t exactly new. He's used stuff like that for decades
    - In Cap's Generations book it was stated that none of the vanishing point time travel shenanigans had actually happened, thus no one except Kate should know about it.
    - The "complaints" about throwing knives were a bit weird as he had use them as well in the past.

    Those are, however, all things that only are an issue when you keep other stories in mind. The story at hand doesn't suffer from it at all and considering I am a huge fan of Brian Michael Bendis who did stuff like that all the time I would be a hypocrite if I were to complain too much.

    The interactions between both Hawkeyes were fun, dialogues with her friends as well and the cliffhanger is intriguing. What more could I ask for?

    That said: I sure hope the cover of the next issue has a REALLY good explanation, hahaha.
    As fotr the rest
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

  9. #9
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    32,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    I get what Frontier says. Clint always behaves differently when Kate is around. Or to make it simple: He's never more "Hawkguy" than he is when he is with Kate.
    He always seems a tad more confused, he always find himself faster in trouble and stuff like that.
    Kate on the other hand doesn't change much wether she is with him or not. Not a complaint, just an observation.

    Though, once you accept that it's a very enjoyable dynamic.

    As for the issue itself, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in Kate's thread:



    As fotr the rest
    The knives comment reminded me of Ultimate Hawkeye.

    I did find it weird that Clint said it was a new arrow. I mean, what Superhero archer worth their quiver would not have a grapple arrow?

  10. #10
    Been lurking since '08
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    279

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I've just never really bought into it, especially since it seems like more often then not Clint feels out-of-character when they're together (at least in my eye).
    Ok, I think I know where you're coming from.

    You don't like "hawkguy" Clint. When he's around Kate, and is "Hawkguy", he's usually presented as this spectacular screw up. And while I don't mind Hawkguy, I do hate when characters make drastic unexplained changes. Nevertheless, I think their relationship is great, especially since Kate herself has strayed a bit from her own original conception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matternativ View Post
    I get what Frontier says. Clint always behaves differently when Kate is around. Or to make it simple: He's never more "Hawkguy" than he is when he is with Kate.
    He always seems a tad more confused, he always find himself faster in trouble and stuff like that.
    Kate on the other hand doesn't change much wether she is with him or not. Not a complaint, just an observation.

    Though, once you accept that it's a very enjoyable dynamic.

    As for the issue itself, I'll just copy/paste what I wrote in Kate's thread:
    Beat me to it, lol. Had my response to Frontier written up then had to run an errand, so it got autosave (thanks vBulletin).

    That said, I do think her personality also changes a bit when she's around him, as has her entire conception been changed quite a bit. No doubt due to the influence of the Fraction run. She was originally written as almost a bit of a prodigy aloof dark-haired girl, whereas these days she's written as almost as bad as Clint - getting in over her head & getting her ass beat in comedic fashion, making Spiderman jokes, being described as "annoying".

    As a roleplayer I generally write her personality as pre & post Clint Barton influence. Before Clint, we have the in control spoilt prodigy rich girl, then after Clint we have the almost as spectacular annoying screw up who you'd never believe actually lead the Young Avengers.

    As I said though, I love them together all in all.
    Last edited by Marik Swift; 12-07-2017 at 07:52 PM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    7,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Ok, I think I know where you're coming from.

    You don't like "hawkguy" Clint. When he's around Kate, and is "Hawkguy", he's usually presented as this spectacular screw up. And while I don't mind Hawkguy, I do hate when characters make drastic unexplained changes. Nevertheless, I think their relationship is great, especially since Kate herself has strayed a bit from her own original conception.



    Beat me to it, lol. Had my response to Frontier written up then had to run an errand, so it got autosave (thanks vBulletin).

    That said, I do think her personality also changes a bit when she's around him, as has her entire conception been changed quite a bit. No doubt due to the influence of the Fraction run. She was originally written as almost a bit of a prodigy aloof dark-haired girl, whereas these days she's written as almost as bad as Clint - getting in over her head & getting her ass beat in comedic fashion, making Spiderman jokes, being described as "annoying".

    As a roleplayer I generally write her personality as pre & post Clint Barton influence. Before Clint, we have the in control spoilt prodigy rich girl, then after Clint we have the almost as spectacular annoying screw up who you'd never believe actually lead the Young Avengers.

    As I said though, I love them together all in all.
    I agree. Kate's evolution is a curious one.
    Said evolution reminds of me of fans who questioned the characterization of Hope Summers (for those familiar with those X-days back when) when written by Kieron Gillen. He was responsible for both her depiction in Generation Hope and her depiction within Uncanny X-Men -- two very distinctly different roles among two very distinctly different groups of individuals. In Generation Hope, she was an insistent leader and tactician, whereas in Uncanny X-Men she was much more the subordinate child soldier eager to follow orders, and I find that entirely believable that one would behave differently -- even more competently -- depending on the company you're matriculating with.

    When Kate was on the Young Avengers, she was the eldest, also forced to mature fast early on by way of unfortunate life-circumstance, amidst a family with strong expectations for excellence and she continued that characterization throughout Heinberg's run. She was confident, capable, and a strong leader --arguably among CHILDREN. Perhaps its much easier to exude that level of confidence and capability when you're on a team of your peers.

    Then she moved on from that team having lost more loved ones and feeling responsible, as the team's leader. She moved to the other side of the country. Lost her financial security. Gained a mentor who continually praised her talents, thereby refortifying that self assuredness bordering on cockiness. But its a slippery slope -- self esteem -- when faced with foreign surroundings, lack of support system and familiarity, endeavoring to "rebrand" yourself (detective) so I can see how she might actually inadvertently sponge off some of the bumbly behavioral quirks Clint exuded while they were duo-ing, intentional or not.

    The one constant seems to be her assertive sass.

  12. #12
    I hate Christmas Matternativ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Austria, Vienna
    Posts
    1,754

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    Ok, I think I know where you're coming from.

    You don't like "hawkguy" Clint. When he's around Kate, and is "Hawkguy", he's usually presented as this spectacular screw up. And while I don't mind Hawkguy, I do hate when characters make drastic unexplained changes. Nevertheless, I think their relationship is great, especially since Kate herself has strayed a bit from her own original conception.



    Beat me to it, lol. Had my response to Frontier written up then had to run an errand, so it got autosave (thanks vBulletin).

    That said, I do think her personality also changes a bit when she's around him, as has her entire conception been changed quite a bit. No doubt due to the influence of the Fraction run. She was originally written as almost a bit of a prodigy aloof dark-haired girl, whereas these days she's written as almost as bad as Clint - getting in over her head & getting her ass beat in comedic fashion, making Spiderman jokes, being described as "annoying".

    As a roleplayer I generally write her personality as pre & post Clint Barton influence. Before Clint, we have the in control spoilt prodigy rich girl, then after Clint we have the almost as spectacular annoying screw up who you'd never believe actually lead the Young Avengers.

    As I said though, I love them together all in all.
    Oh you misunderstood me. I mean Kate did change a lot BUT she is now like that all the time whether Clint is with her or not.

    Clint on the other hand is written as Hawkguy mostly when she is around. I mean okay he also acted like that a bit in Occupy Avengers but then there are Civil War II and it's add-on books, his guest appearances in Uncanny avengers and Old Man Logan, everything Secret Empire related. Especially in the latter he never acted like that instead he was counted among the people the others listened to like Carol and Sam.
    There was never much of Hawkguy.

    Now compare that to the times Kate was with him:
    Fractions run: the Hawkguy origin, all new Hawkeye: the worst example of Hawkguy and now Kate's solo.

    I am however glad that he acted very "oldschool" on Generations.

    Anyway I am not here to knock on the Hawkguy-persona although it has overstayed it's welcome a bit in my opinion, it's just an observation.
    Last edited by Matternativ; 12-09-2017 at 05:12 AM.
    "̶l̶̶e̶̶t̶'̶s̶̶ ̶̶h̶̶a̶̶v̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶o̶̶m̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶f̶̶u̶̶n̶̶,̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶h̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶b̶̶e̶̶a̶̶t̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶s̶̶ ̶̶s̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶.̶̶ ̶̶i̶̶ ̶̶w̶̶a̶̶n̶̶n̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶t̶̶a̶̶k̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶a̶̶ ̶̶r̶̶i̶̶d̶̶e̶̶ ̶̶o̶̶n̶̶ ̶̶y̶̶o̶̶u̶̶r̶̶ ̶̶d̶̶i̶̶s̶̶c̶̶o̶̶s̶̶t̶̶i̶̶c̶̶k̶̶"
    "Let's have some fun, this riff is sick. I wanna mosh around in the Circle Pit!"

    Matt's Stuff [Blog]: Superhero Movies 2017 - R A N K E D

  13. #13
    Spectacular Member Kelly Thompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Thanks so much for all the love guys.

    Sidebar: Of course Clint's had a grappling hook arrow before...this is just a NEW one. ;D

    From Hawkeye 14 out the first week of January:
    Mr Hawkeye Sir.jpg

  14. #14
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    691

    Default

    I’m just confused because I read all the generations issues and we were told all the characters did all these checks and learned none of them really happened at all period,the quite “It hadn’t been time travel.” was used, now this. Was a really fun isssue though

  15. #15
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    4,001

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Thompson View Post
    Thanks so much for all the love guys.

    Sidebar: Of course Clint's had a grappling hook arrow before...this is just a NEW one. ;D

    From Hawkeye 14 out the first week of January:
    Mr Hawkeye Sir.jpg
    You make trade-waiting painful. But I will have Volume 2 of Kate for Christmas. And those are both good things.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •