View Poll Results: What should Diana's origin be ?

Voters
68. You may not vote on this poll
  • Zeus

    27 39.71%
  • Other God

    1 1.47%
  • regular person

    1 1.47%
  • She doesn't need a father

    39 57.35%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 148

Thread: Diana's father

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,228

    Default Diana's father

    I get that it doesn't matter who the father is but rather how you raise your child. But in a sense why can't Diana have a father who isn't an abuser or rapist? In a sense you're are just having the same parent line as the rest of trinity's situation with their parent? WHy has Diana been a target? Doesn't that defeat Diana's origin? An abuser, rapist and a murderous wife defeat the point of Diana. Yes the Amazons raised her but even than Diana is a target and her mother gave herself to a rapist. She knows this. Why have sex with a rapist and an abuser, and a cheater? Why can't Diana earn her powers? Why can't Hippolyta just save a man and they fall in love? Why can't it be the happy origin?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 11:53 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too. You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 12-07-2017 at 01:00 PM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    BANNED
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6,501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too. You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)
    Thats several times worse than anything thats ever been given Diana or anyone close to her in terms of parentage.

  4. #4
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    29,974

    Default

    I've got no problem with Zeus; it's logical.
    Why do people need to worry if ancient Greek mythology is politically correct or not?

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    5,733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I've got no problem with Zeus; it's logical.
    Why do people need to worry if ancient Greek mythology is politically correct or not?
    Oh baby gotta break this into microscopic pieces.

    1. Wonder Woman is inherently a political book.
    2. Wonder Woman's inception was inspired by Greek Myth, not derived from it.
    3. "Political correctness" is a suspicious topic to level and debate, and its invoker should always be a complicit in its dissection.
    4. Context logic is different than theme logic.
    5. People aren't worried about myth, they're worried about Wonder Woman.
    6. People aren't worried.
    7. Zeus is a problematic character, made powerful by a problematic paradigm.
    8. Even simple consent is murky when one party is a deity.

    There's more, obviously, but I'm on my way out the door.

    As for me, my endpoints tend to align with Outside, but my I prefer to work through Bifrost's methodologies.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    717

    Default

    She doesn't need one. This trope is weird. At this point, far too much time has passed to develop a relationship with a father figure significant enough to make any kind of noteworthy multimedia impact whatsoever.
    Last edited by Amazon Swordsman; 12-07-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  7. #7
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    18,566

    Default

    She doesn't have a father. She has a stranger who had something with her mum once upon a long time ago. Who happens to be Zeus.

    So from my POV the poll should be multiple choice. Well, from my POV all polls should be, but that's another matter.

  8. #8
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Usually at the End of Time
    Posts
    4,586

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    I choose "She doesn't need a father," but "regular person" works for me too.

    I hadn't really considered this option before, but, yeah, I concur. Like, a totally regular, non-CBPH, non-magical, average joe.


    You know, the way Hal Jordan's father is a fantastic pilot who heroically sacrifices himself to save others, and Hal tries to live up to his example. And Hal Jordan's mother is a "regular person" whose profession I don't even know. (There is, of course, nothing wrong with being the single mother of three; in The So-Called Real World™, it's hard work and important. But in the heroic narrative of Hal Jordan, she is a tertiary and generic character with no discernible impact on his character arc.)

    So, to be clear: in this scenario, Hippolyta would be akin to Hal's dad here, i.e. the heroic uber-parent. While Diana's regular joe dad would be akin to Hal's non-descript mom, yes? Except, both of Hal's parents are long dead AFAIK (or ..?), and Hippolyta has Alfred status (can't ever die for realsies), so here I would likewise keep Average Joe Dad alive but away from all the action most of the time with no chance of overshadowing Hippolyta or Diana (unlike Zeus).

    I just realized I'm totally thinking of a still-living Rose Quartz and Greg Universe, parents of Steven Universe:



    Yeah, if Diana's dad was as simple and nice and mortal (and as completely useless in battle) as Greg Universe, while Hippolyta remains as badass as Rose Quartz, I'd be down for that as Diana's parentage.


    I could explicate this at greater length, but I would just be repeating myself. (https://www.themarysue.com/wonder-wo...nal-narrative/)

    I just read this. Very well said, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything in it.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,228

    Default

    I mean if it were regular everyday joe I do think he should still be alive. That to the Gods he earned being immortal and lives with the Amazons. I do think it would be a nice change to his character when Diana comes home. I mean does her father being Zeus really rejected her from getting her powers? Why not have them earned by winning the contest? How should the average joe be?
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 05:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,905

    Default

    Honestly giving her any father takes aways a lot from her origin for me. I guess a non important father is better than Zeus but I'd rather neither and we go back to the original clay origin.

  11. #11
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    29,974

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean if it were regular everyday joe I do think it should still be alive.
    "It" should still be alive?!?

    Are we talking about a man or some dude who has since been neutered?

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    "It" should still be alive?!?

    Are we talking about a man or some dude who has since been neutered?
    My bad. I do think her father would still be alive. That he is the first man to be given immortality.

  13. #13
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,157

    Default

    Zeus is papi, now. That's the origin, ..for now.

    Red Tornado, Flash, Hawkman, Black Widow, Green Lantern, Human Torch, the Vision, the Atom and a few other superheroes, created in the Golden Age (40s), were re-envisioned for the Silver Age and beyond. I don't see why Wonder Woman's origin should be spared similar consideration.

    Keep in mind that there was no 'Trinity', when Wonder Woman debuted, in 1941. She became part of another trio in Comics Cavalcade, with Flash and Green Lantern, who both underwent major changes - new settings, new costumes, new origins, etc - for the sci-fi mania of the 1950s. If Flash and Green Lantern can survive and be made even more successful, by smart revisions, Wonder Woman should do fine.
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4,147

    Default

    I voted for the last option. WW was unique in all of comicdom. She was a child born purely of a Mother's Love and a boon granted by a loving Goddess. It did so much in telling a familiar tale in an entirely new way. I loved that and for my money that is the way to go. The other approaches make her beyond generic and worse align her with the rather unpleasant turning of a blind eye to the bad behavior steeped in privilege. It poops on her mythos by compromising Sisterhood and having Hippolyte and Zeus have a thing. No thank you a million times to the nth power. There are literally hundreds of legends/heroes with the origin given in 52. Hera, Wonder Girl had it in Volume 2 and it was generic then. Why go this route?

    If they just HAD to have divine lineage they could have Gone with Aphrodite/Athena and Hippolyte having a thing and doing a play on the whole immaculate conception--except this time there could be consent and affirmation born out of Love instead of the uglier thing where a divine being just uses someone as a vessel without her knowledge/consent.

    If it tears down or removes the femme centered power or takes a dump on Sisterhood it has no place in WW.
    Last edited by Stanlos; 12-09-2017 at 07:30 PM.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    I just read this. Very well said, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything in it.
    Thank you for your kind words.

    In my version of the "regular guy" father, Hippolyta is sent on a mission to Man's World by a goddess. She's there a month or two, seeking out and fighting some myth-related monster. A very decent and kind, but essentially ordinary, man gets caught up in the narrative. They become close, and spend a night together. But her mission is over, and "my place or yours?" doesn't really apply. (She has to go back and be queen of the Amazons; he really can't live there, and anyway has a life of his own, including a child from his previous marriage.) When she returns to Themyscira, she realizes she's pregnant.

    Years later, when Diana goes to Man's World and becomes Wonder Woman, she seeks out her father. He has died, but she still has a mortal half-sister and other relatives to give her some connection in Man's World.

    (Now, if you want the fan fiction version - well, I've never actually written it down. It's St. Louis. He runs a homeless shelter. He's missing an arm, from a war-time injury... But that's all besides the point.)
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •