View Poll Results: What should Diana's origin be ?

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  • Zeus

    27 39.71%
  • Other God

    1 1.47%
  • regular person

    1 1.47%
  • She doesn't need a father

    39 57.35%
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Thread: Diana's father

  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Why the hell should the Amazon's suddenly allow a "regular male" to live on their hidden, women-only island?!?
    And that’s just one logic argument. There are several others before we begin context and theme arguments, and discussing what it would do to established characters and relationships.

    Years ago, Diana’s mother broke off her relationship with the Patriarchy to create Themyscira. Years later, Diana learns her father is Patriarchy itself.

  2. #32
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Why the hell should the Amazon's suddenly allow a "regular male" to live on their hidden, women-only island?!?

    Hell, that would make the old TV show Three's Company seem like it belongs on PBS's Masterpiece Theater.
    True. How do you feel about it being a women-only island, I have no problem with it being a women-only island, so has long has not all the Amazons are man-haters.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Problematic Zeus is less problematic than retconning a "regular guy" sperm donor into a relationship with the immortal Queen of the Amazons.
    I've seen a number of variations on Donna's origin where it is not Diana but Hippolyta who, on a sojourn to Man's World, rescues the infant child from a burning building. (This solves some chronology problems involving Donna's age relative to the other O5 Teen Titans.) People don't seem to have a problem with that possibility.

    I don't see why Hippolyta can't, instead, have a sojourn to Man's World and, while there, have an affair with a mortal man. They don't have to get married; it doesn't have to be Eternal Love. She's human (to some degree of approximation...), he's human - it happens.

    But that's just me.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean what if she is called by the Gods to find an ancient Amazon artifacts that got into the wrong hands before Diana was born? She gets help for this man. Heck maybe him and Hippolyta keep in contact

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    She’s human (to some degree of approximation...), he's human - it happens.
    From a guy who wants to escape Patriarchal narratives, I’d need an explanation why the addition and inclusion of a surprise, long-lost human father whose existence would require sussing out, scouring the planet, and then requiring thorough explanations is preferable to a situation wherein her mother is the only possible resource for parenting.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean what if she is called by the Gods to find an ancient Amazon artifacts that got into the wrong hands before Diana was born? She gets help for this man. Heck maybe him and Hippolyta keep in contact
    I dare you to write this fanfic.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Poison View Post
    No daddy required. It worked just fine up until 2011.
    Evidence points towards there being bugs.
    And that's not counting all the sikver age stories where some wizard type turned her back into clay.


  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    That's just bad writing. Diana was a real human but bad writing is dumb. However, the most important thing of Wonder Woman myth is that there is love.

  8. #38
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I have no problem with the sex raids but not getting people drunk that the Amazons go to ports and have consenting sex. They look at the world and trade of their stuff for new tech to learn for it. The sex raids idea isn't bad but the way it was told was messy. Like why kill them. You could have left and that's it. I mean if the Amazons got to the boating ports and were looking around I don't think it would be hard for them to have a one night stand.
    I agree. I think it should have started off with them killing (cause the Amazons wouldn't get stories told of them being savages without some of it being true), but when Hippolyta became queen she got rid of the killing thereafter

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    That's just bad writing.
    It's an infinitely ongoing comic. A tremendous amount of bad writing is inevitable.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marik Swift View Post
    I agree. I think it should have started off with them killing (cause the Amazons wouldn't get stories told of them being savages without some of it being true), but when Hippolyta became queen she got rid of the killing thereafter
    It occurs to me that the killing is primarily to prevent there being witnesses who could follow them back to Themyscira.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It occurs to me that the killing is primarily to prevent there being witnesses who could follow them back to Themyscira.
    Why not have them use magic or use magic cloaking instead of just killing them? I mean if I think about it why not have the Amazons go to port towns instead it much easier for them to leave and the men can't find them. Also, why not have an extra shield like the ones Harry Potter has that people not born on the Island will forget about that and go back home? Also, what should happen to the sons? I do think the Amazons should visit them. I wonder what should be a better way to handle the women-only Island. I mean if they are guarding Ares or the doom gate maybe the magic affects outsiders but mostly men? I don't have a sound explain so sorry.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 08:58 PM.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    From a guy who wants to escape Patriarchal narratives, I’d need an explanation why the addition and inclusion of a surprise, long-lost human father whose existence would require sussing out, scouring the planet, and then requiring thorough explanations is preferable to a situation wherein her mother is the only possible resource for parenting.
    I don't see all stories where a character has a mother and a father as examples of the Patriarchal Narrative (any more than I see all stories where a character has a mother and a father as examples of the Matriarchal Narrative). The issue turns on the relative importance (in ways that are meaningful to the narrative being constructed) of the two parents. My version was simply: Hippolyta goes to Man's World, gets pregnant, comes home. It's my nature as a writer to build a story around that framework, just to see if I can get it to work out, but I don't see any "scouring the planet" involved. He's just a guy who lives in St. Louis.

    In addition, I'm not really offering the "regular guy" origin as being superior to the clay origin, which I think works just fine. It's a secondary possibility, and something of a response to the people who say (when I argue against the Zeus origin):

    - "Everybody has a mother and a father, even in those Paternal Narratives you complain about! Why shouldn't they in the Maternal Narrative, like Diana's?"
    - "You just don't want any men involved anywhere. It's a feminist hatred of men!" (I have to laugh at this one. I love men. I'm happily married to one. I am one.)

    So it exists as a demonstration that you can include a man - a father - and still have a Maternal Narrative. When the father plays approximately the same role that mothers do in many Paternal Narratives. That's all. But I'd take the clay origin first.

    [EDITED TO ADD: And I certainly didn't mean the father character here to be a "surprise, long-lost" father, the way Zeus was - Diana learning the secret as an adult after she had been told some lie, maybe the clay origin as lie. In this hypothetical version, Hippolyta tells Diana from the beginning that her father was a nice man she met in Man's World. And when Diana becomes Wonder Woman, she looks for him exactly where her mother said he lived. It's intended to fit at the beginning of a complete reboot, not as a sudden, shocking storyline. And no lies or big secrets involved. If I gave some other impression, I miswrote.]
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 12-07-2017 at 09:19 PM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  13. #43
    Been lurking since '08 Marik Swift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    It occurs to me that the killing is primarily to prevent there being witnesses who could follow them back to Themyscira.
    That is rather easily solved by them leaving when the men are sleeping, maintaining that Themyscira isn't easily accessed, etc? Them killing came off more, to me, as them simply hating men, but seeing them as a means to an end, and with the way how they were portrayed later in Azz's run, I'd say it was more due to the just straight up being a ruthless killers.

  14. #44
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    I think, before I go any further on this topic, I'll readily admit the truth of the matter.

    Diana being the Daughter of Zeus isn't going away anytime soon. Not because the New52 mandated it, but because Rebirth didn't officially rebuke it, and then the movie cemented Heroic Widower Zeus as her sacrificial dad to millions of viewers who will never pick up a comic book, or at least, not an old one with the clay origin.

    The damage is done, Daddy Zeus is here to stay until DC's Next Hard Reboot (I'd say probably 2030).

    So, now I'm speaking to more what could happen once we hit that Hard Reboot (has to company-wide, for all characters and franchises, tho: everyone starts from Day One). Or maybe an Elseworlds project.

    I'm fine with Totally Average Joe (TAJ) as Diana's dad and Hippolyta's paramour. He can be alive, in fact, I would prefer he be modern. This is comics, after all, if you MUST have Diana be 1000s or 100s of years old (I definitely do not require that for Diana), then have Hippolyta use time shenanigans. He can't visit Themyscria (unless he pulls a Superman and technically never touch the soil, via a levitation device or something), so maybe Hippolyta secretly visits him in Man's World, or some third neutral place. Also, he's definitely shorter than both Hippolyta and adult Diana.

    But this is basically like pairing Jor-El (Hippolyta) with Martha Kent (TAJ) to produce Superman (Diana). Complete opposites attract. But he would just a be simple man, with no toxic masculinity, who tries to do good in the world in his own small way.

    I think the main issue is the perception among some fans that any sympathetic male in WW's world will ultimately somehow detract from the goodness of the Amazons. I understand the no-faith-in-DC-about-WW attitude, but this particular perception is toxic and does the Wonderverse no favors either.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I dare you to write this fanfic.
    If you don’t mind me asking why do you want me to write this fanfic ? I mena it’s nothing special just about Hippoltya needing to go to the outside world to find lost mythical artifacts. She gets help by a and this is cliche but he is a archaeologist. That or he is a backpack traveler
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-07-2017 at 11:43 PM.

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