Zeus
Other God
regular person
She doesn't need a father
Zeus is papi, now. That's the origin, ..for now.
Red Tornado, Flash, Hawkman, Black Widow, Green Lantern, Human Torch, the Vision, the Atom and a few other superheroes, created in the Golden Age (40s), were re-envisioned for the Silver Age and beyond. I don't see why Wonder Woman's origin should be spared similar consideration.
Keep in mind that there was no 'Trinity', when Wonder Woman debuted, in 1941. She became part of another trio in Comics Cavalcade, with Flash and Green Lantern, who both underwent major changes - new settings, new costumes, new origins, etc - for the sci-fi mania of the 1950s. If Flash and Green Lantern can survive and be made even more successful, by smart revisions, Wonder Woman should do fine.
COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!
In Marston it’s because the gods want the amazons to fight in the war. It’s been hinted several times that it’s because the gods wanted Steve to be found and a champion to go and help the world
If it’s your choice would you want the amazons not to kill the men, if they had non lethal ways of making the men not follow them? Like cloarking or making the men forget about them ?
Last edited by AmiMizuno; 12-08-2017 at 09:02 AM.
DB: Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't suggesting misandry, but wanted you to tell me how something that I read as a clear father-focused narrative wasn't patriarchal.
It seems to me that the invention of a Regular Person who had a Past Relationship with persons from a Magical Place, is entirely Thomas Curry's place in the DCU, and Donna Troy's in the WWU. Also, it doesn't track with me that such a person wouldn't be first among Diana's reasons for leaving the island, thereby changing her character arc completely.
And once she DOES meet Regular Dad, how does he NOT become the entry point for the series? Even following the Greg Universe comparison, he would become the anchor and instructor and dry shoulder for every Regular Place foible and misstep. He would become a favorite character, and not a footnote.
Hippolyta is Diana's mom. That's what I care most about.
I think my favorite version would be a combination of Simone and Thompson - and, no, I don't find it surprising at all that the two women would focus more on the maternal in this part of the story.
I quite like this.
I don't like this. For millennia, women have been denied equal treatement, including being restricted from education. For those several thousands of years, they've been denied an equal voice.
I don't like this either. So, because a bunch of sexist men from a different culture that didn't like the Amazons very much told some unflattering stories, then, those stories must be true? There's no evidence that any people in the region cut off a breast for archery, yet, that didn't stop the stories, right? Sometimes, stories are just wrong.
I don't understand this, especially coming from you, an advocate for Zeus as daddy. For starters, not all men are patriarchs, so, (speaking for myself) me being against Zeus due, in large part, to him being a patriarch of patriarchs, is not the same as me being against all men or all dads. A character having a biological father does not mean the story has to be paternal, or worse, patriarchal.
If, for whatever reason, WW needs to have a father, then, I agree with those saying JAG (Just A Guy) is the way to go (Hercules would probably be my second choice, but not in the way Morrison went about it). And, the best way to avoid spending too much time on him? Kill him. Hippolyta met him 300 years ago (Diana gets her immortality from mom's side).
As for Aquaman already having this "place," is there only one per place? How many American GLs are there? Besides, isn't Heracles, as an offspring of Zeus, already in this "place"? Sure, he may not be that prominent in DC, but everyone knows his story, thus, making the WW revision in to a second-rate hand-me-down.
Last edited by Awonder; 12-08-2017 at 12:10 PM.
Why?
As I said: Also, it doesn't track with me that such a person wouldn't be first among Diana's reasons for leaving the island, thereby changing her character arc completely.
The argument AGAINST Zeus is that it is not unique. If advocacy for a new character, JAG, is acceptable, but it should be unique, correct?
Nope. Diana doesn't need a father - in this (at least) I'm a Marston purist. It works much better with her legend not to have one and is a nice nod to her mythical roots.
I've never been one to have a problem relating to Diana as a human/metahuman/demigod, because that's what she becomes the moment the clay statue is blessed and transmuted/rebirthed into a little girl, who is blessed by the gods at birth or at a later point in time.
She's not a golem. She's magically born and became human, metahuman, or demigod (depending on your fave interpretation.)
Sure Circe can transmute her back to clay as one of spells, but that doesn't change her magical birth. You could also do a story where Medusa runs amuck in the DCU turning everyone to stone, before Diana finds the means to change them back. It doesn't make them any less human, or Kryptonian, or Martian, or whatever because they were transmuted for a bit.
She's stronger without the Zeus origin, but I accept it for what it is for the time being.
Doesn't need a father.
The clay origin was far more interesting and unique...and she wasn't a golem.
No, some things are inherently wrong.
Which is not to say the Zeus thing cannot work. I have no problem with it in the movies, because Zeus is dead and, in the context of the story, was a benevolent character. Quite different from the actual mythology, just as the Amazons themselves are. Folks who have problems with that must want Thor movies to feature more pillaging and raping.
My problem in the DCU is what sort of character Zeus is. Even if one writer follows the movie script, inevitably somebody will want to 'dirty things up'. So for the comic book the clay origin is my definite preference.
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not
“The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor
"Just stop" what exactly? And how are you in any position to tell me to stop anything?
In your post that I initially replied to, you wanted to claim "truth" to the myths, right? But, what is that assumed "truth" based on? Stories. Stories that are famous for the one-breast Amazons. Yet, there is no known truth to that. So, doesn't that point to a very big hole in your assumption of "truth"?
As for the sexism, are you going to argue that sexism isn't real? Are you going to claim the Ancient Greeks (as well as so much of human history), those from whom we get these myths, were not sexist? If they were sexist (and they were), and if they were not big fans of these strong, independent women, then why should we assume the "truth" of their stories without questioning that the sexism in their worldview may have informed how they portrayed the world in their stories?