'Spider-Man' Sequel Filming Start Date Revealed; Jon Watts Confirmed To Return

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It sounds to me like you and I kind of agree on the movie adaptations as a whole: none of them have captured the full scope of the Peter Parker character, from McGuire to Garfield to Holland. They all have done well in my eyes for their roles, but I agree: each has been fairly straightforward. It comes from an era of superhero movie storytelling that wasn't as prevalent as it is now.

I tend to think that Spider-Man 1 was the best of Raimi films. I know everyone says Spider-Man 2 but to me if you are saying that a movie where a huge chunk of the action has the hero without powers and trying to quit and so on is the best...then it's probably a superhero movie made for people who don't like superheroes. And that movie peaks with the great train scene and the climax that follows is just boring, trite, and sequel-bridging...you know Harry is soon going to be Goblin. The big problem is that the Raimi films are patterned on Richard Donner's Superman movies. Spider-Man isn't Superman. He was in the comics a far more developed and rounded character than Golden and Silver Age Batman and Superman and to the extent that both of the DC big two have complex characterizations in later comics, it comes from writers borrowing ideas from Spider-Man.

The major problem in Raimi's Trilogy which kind of ruined the entire thing and crippled the characterizations is Peter walking away from Mary Jane at the end of the first film. That is flat out something comics Peter would never do. He is not this celibate hero or monk. He would never say no to love, or ever be so demoralized (at least Pre-OMD) that he would give up on relationships and happiness completely. He'd complain about it and worry and so on, but he never gives up on love and growing up. That bit ruined Peter's character, it also hurt Mary Jane's character because the sequel reset her as this "unattainable girl" when Peter and Mary Jane are distinguished for being a functional couple in a relationship and so on. It also meant that MJ and Peter's arc in SM-2 repeats beats from the first film. In general Raimi cast so brilliantly...JK Simmons as Jameson, Rosemary Harris as Aunt May, and yet the only character who gets a complete arc beginning-middle-end is...James Franco's Harry Osborn. I mean you see the problem with the trilogy right there. JK Simmons' Jameson who is so perfect never fully becomes the complex figure of ASM #10, ASM #246 to list just a few stories that were out when the movie came. Likewise, Rosemary Harris' Aunt May after that brilliant scene in SM2 and so on, she doesn't get the conclusion she deserves namely ASM #400. That was the obvious ending for the trilogy. Instead, Harry flippin' Osborn is the hill the Trilogy dies on.

These are the most iconic screen versions of Peter and his supporting cast...and yet the trilogy failed all of them, failed its actors. What a waste.

Chris Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy has a backlash but he didn't drop the ball there. Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon, Rachel Dawes all of them have complete character arcs that carry over movie-from-movie. The movies didn't fail any of them.

Also, Aunt May was bi-curious? Since when? :P

Well Google Search ITSV, Aunt May and the whole "Oh it's Liv" thing.

[Frontier]

I read someone else predict that Mysterio's plan may basically just be Syndrome's from The Incredibles, creating a threat that he can easily defeat so he can become a famous hero, and I'd be all for seeing that.

It's also in-line with his original appearance, where Mysterio pretended to be a hero to cover up the crimes he was committing and framing Spidey for.

Hopefully they finally introduce Felicia Hardy/Black Cat in the third film

I think Felicia is probably still off-limits because of Sony.

My big problem with these films is that Tom Holland as an actor seems to be corralled into doing just a few default emotions...bug-eyed nervousness, and half-worded cluelessness communicated with incomplete sentences. It's basically the other side of Tobey Maguire's constant mournfulness and aw-shucks naivete which was basically the default Peter attitude that the direction and script gave him. Not blaming the actors but the role kind of flattens the character. You don't get a sense of complete characterization that you did with Chris Evans' Cap or Downey's Iron Man or even after IW, Hemsworth's Thor.

I think my problem with Holland's Peter is that I don't think he has a good Spider-Man voice or personality yet. In-costume it's basically just his Peter with the occasional quip or two.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And I think my problem with Holland's Peter is that I don't think he has a good Spider-Man voice or personality yet. In-costume it's basically just his Peter with the occasional quip or two.

Yeah you don't get the sense of the Spider-Man outfit making Peter into a more bombastic and theatrical character. Like Raimi's Spider-Man, for all its flaws I laid out, did capture that, at least in Part 1, where Spidey quips to Bonesaw McGraw, or you know in the Unity Day parade where after he rescues MJ from Goblin and drops her at the rooftop terrace he swings away and yells out "Woo-hoo" and so on. And my biggest pet peeve about Holland's Spider-Man is the idea that high school=incompetent. Like Aaron Davis calls out Spider-Man for being this kid from queens and so on...616 was clear about this. When Goblin found out Peter's identity in ASM #39, his reaction was total disbelief that his archnemesis was a teenager. In Civil War, Dr. Octopus goes on a rampage and attacks Spider-Man and snarls in disbelief that his rival has been humiliating and besting him since high school. I had similar problems with Ultimate Spider-Man but even then Bendis' Peter does lvl up, like those fat jokes he tells Kingpin...and then of course Ultimate Shocker going apes--t over realizing that Spider-Man was a teenage kid and so on.

And also...Peter Parker having Ganke Ned as his best friend, aside from hijacking Miles and so on, it's just out-of-character. Peter as a character is historically always closer to his girlfriends than any of his male friends, that was true of 616 and USM, and Weisman's Spectacular Spider-Man. He is relationship crazy. So having Ned Ganke be his confidant and friend in Homecoming effectively makes that the central relationship for the whole high school arc. I had similar problems with Harry Osborn but at least there it was clear that it was a toxic friendship. Ideally they should have made Michelle Jones, aka Millennial MJ, into the role her Ultimate counterpart played but that pooch is screwed now.

Having said that I loved the homage to Commuter Commuteth in Homecoming. And Michael Keaton's Vulture is great. I also liked Liz Toomes and if they are going to make her into Liz Achemax CEO, I think it would be cool. I know they are planning to do Sinister Six and there's a temptation to bring back Dr. Ock for Part 3, but to me, Keaton's Vulture should head up and lead the Sinister 6. I don't think audiences will accept some new guy coming in and then somehow bossing around Keaton's Vulture. The Sinister 6 can work with minor villains (like Scorpion, Shocker or one of these elementals) along with two major ones (Vulture, Mysterio), and if they want to round it up, Part 3 could bring in...Juggernaut. You know Roger Stern homage and all. X-Men characters are accessible, and Juggernaut works brilliantly as a heavy and as Deadpool 2 showed, needs little introduction, aside from big guy who is strong and invulnerable.

[LordUltimus]

[Snoop Dogg]

I wanna eat his hair.

[WebSlingWonder]

I tend to think that Spider-Man 1 was the best of Raimi films. I know everyone says Spider-Man 2 but to me if you are saying that a movie where a huge chunk of the action has the hero without powers and trying to quit and so on is the best...then it's probably a superhero movie made for people who don't like superheroes. And that movie peaks with the great train scene and the climax that follows is just boring, trite, and sequel-bridging...you know Harry is soon going to be Goblin. The big problem is that the Raimi films are patterned on Richard Donner's Superman movies. Spider-Man isn't Superman. He was in the comics a far more developed and rounded character than Golden and Silver Age Batman and Superman and to the extent that both of the DC big two have complex characterizations in later comics, it comes from writers borrowing ideas from Spider-Man.

The major problem in Raimi's Trilogy which kind of ruined the entire thing and crippled the characterizations is Peter walking away from Mary Jane at the end of the first film. That is flat out something comics Peter would never do. He is not this celibate hero or monk. He would never say no to love, or ever be so demoralized (at least Pre-OMD) that he would give up on relationships and happiness completely. He'd complain about it and worry and so on, but he never gives up on love and growing up. That bit ruined Peter's character, it also hurt Mary Jane's character because the sequel reset her as this "unattainable girl" when Peter and Mary Jane are distinguished for being a functional couple in a relationship and so on. It also meant that MJ and Peter's arc in SM-2 repeats beats from the first film. In general Raimi cast so brilliantly...JK Simmons as Jameson, Rosemary Harris as Aunt May, and yet the only character who gets a complete arc beginning-middle-end is...James Franco's Harry Osborn. I mean you see the problem with the trilogy right there. JK Simmons' Jameson who is so perfect never fully becomes the complex figure of ASM #10, ASM #246 to list just a few stories that were out when the movie came. Likewise, Rosemary Harris' Aunt May after that brilliant scene in SM2 and so on, she doesn't get the conclusion she deserves namely ASM #400. That was the obvious ending for the trilogy. Instead, Harry flippin' Osborn is the hill the Trilogy dies on.

These are the most iconic screen versions of Peter and his supporting cast...and yet the trilogy failed all of them, failed its actors. What a waste.

Chris Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy has a backlash but he didn't drop the ball there. Bruce Wayne, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon, Rachel Dawes all of them have complete character arcs that carry over movie-from-movie. The movies didn't fail any of them.




Well Google Search ITSV, Aunt May and the whole "Oh it's Liv" thing.

That's actually an interesting point right there. SM2 was the first one I watched in theaters, but, even knowing the story of his eventual return, was an interesting yet stop gate take. The first was revolutionary because of the fact that half the movie was him out of costume, learning the world, learning his powers, and growing then: an extended version of AF #15 and USM #1-7 (kind of). His arc is definitely interrupted with the third movie, but I guess it's true that they pulled their own reset with the end of one (and I didn't like the fact that he walked away from her either - I mean really? He practically threw himself on her in the comics, but he walks away in the movies? Right...)

[Hypestyle]

I really hope we get to see “The Talk” between Peter and May. It’s way to important for them to gloss over and I trust the people in charge to recognize that.

how to deal with getting stopped by the police?

[Hypestyle]

I just hope that Mysterio isn't secretly the school janitor that Peter had a friendly relationship with or something with a shoehorned 'gotcha' relationship. Vulture was handled well but with the previous movies things really got out of control with sympathetic villains with some connection to Peter and his secret ID.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I just hope that Mysterio isn't secretly the school janitor that Peter had a friendly relationship with or something with a shoehorned 'gotcha' relationship. Vulture was handled well but with the previous movies things really got out of control with sympathetic villains with some connection to Peter and his secret ID.

That's very much a Sony thing. They all fell in love with the Willem Dafoe Goblin thanksgiving scene in Spider-Man 1 and that led them to make every Spider-Man villain a guy Peter has a connection even if the Goblin really was the first villain to have that and that was a rare and new thing. Dr. Octopus...Peter's brand new father-figure and inspiration in SM-2. Sandman...he's secretly Uncle Ben's killer (yikes). Curt Connors, best buds with Peter's Dad. Electro...okay Electro might be the only bad guy legitimately not connected to Spider-Man but then he's also a minor figure.

Mysterio looks like he might just break the mold finally.

I mean during the Sony Email Leaks, Alan Fine, President of Marvel called out Sony for shoehorning a personal connection to Peter every damn time.

[WebSlingWonder]

That's very much a Sony thing. They all fell in love with the Willem Dafoe Goblin thanksgiving scene in Spider-Man 1 and that led them to make every Spider-Man villain a guy Peter has a connection even if the Goblin really was the first villain to have that and that was a rare and new thing. Dr. Octopus...Peter's brand new father-figure and inspiration in SM-2. Sandman...he's secretly Uncle Ben's killer (yikes). Curt Connors, best buds with Peter's Dad. Electro...okay Electro might be the only bad guy legitimately not connected to Spider-Man but then he's also a minor figure.

Mysterio looks like he might just break the mold finally.

I mean during the Sony Email Leaks, Alan Fine, President of Marvel called out Sony for shoehorning a personal connection to Peter every damn time.

The comics have been doing that too, albeit far more organically.

[Snoop Dogg]

When you only have a handful of blockbuster movies and you need a new villain for each one, making a personal connection is a good way to raise stakes and significance. Sandman just didn't work because it was too contrived. Electro suffered because you could practically remove him from that mess and just lose action scenes. Mysterio is going to build a personal relationship too, during the movie when they're partners or whever.

[Hypestyle]

who are Peters new classmates?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

When you only have a handful of blockbuster movies and you need a new villain for each one, making a personal connection is a good way to raise stakes and significance. Sandman just didn't work because it was too contrived. Electro suffered because you could practically remove him from that mess and just lose action scenes. Mysterio is going to build a personal relationship too, during the movie when they're partners or whever.

Richard Donner's Superman the first one...Lex Luthor by Hackman had no personal connection to Superman there. Likewise Penguin had no connection to Batman in Batman Returns, nor Joker in The Dark Knight.

In Homecoming, Adrian Toomes Vulture had no connection to Peter and Spider-Man until Peter goes to pick up Liz's house. Great scene well done and so on but it's not really necessary since Vulture pre-existed Spider-Man and would have continued with or without him.

[LordUltimus]

Trailer got 11 million views in 12 hours. Not too shabby.

[Snoop Dogg]

Richard Donner's Superman the first one...Lex Luthor by Hackman had no personal connection to Superman there. Likewise Penguin had no connection to Batman in Batman Returns, nor Joker in The Dark Knight.

In Homecoming, Adrian Toomes Vulture had no connection to Peter and Spider-Man until Peter goes to pick up Liz's house. Great scene well done and so on but it's not really necessary since Vulture pre-existed Spider-Man and would have continued with or without him.

Homecoming wouldn't be half as good without that god-tier twist, and Joker makes a personal connection by targeting and ruining Batman's friends. Like Sandman, but good. If you do it right, it makes for more engaging conflicts.