STAR WARS The Last Jedi *SPOILERS!*

[Soubhagya]

It's not bad either, i think the goalpost moving in terms of films being good or bad is getting ridiculous. We're getting into the 8.8 territory of film reviews now. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ightPointEight

Well BvS and SS are meant for another thread isn't it? I was not making the point about quality here. That varies from person to person. RT does not show quality but the consensus. 93% does not mean that the reviewers gave it 93 out of 100. (That kind of score is given in Metacritic where TLJ presently has 86%). RT means a simple thumbs up by 93% critics.

In a similar manner Cinemascore is not about quality per se. It measures what audiences are thinking about the movie. In that respect TLJ is doing well. People are liking it. The fans who are complaining here are right in their own way. They simply did not like it. However, it looks like this is an opinion for a minority.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The humour was really needed in this. The Last Jedi is dark and depressing at times. With an incredibly high kill count (TFA had the highest, but those weren't shown onscreen as they are here with people getting vaporized/incinerated left and right.) Without some humour to break the tension, you'd walk out exhausted.

Marvel, for me anyway, is a different story. Ragnarok failed to generate any threat due to the fact everything was treated with flippancy and constant one-liners. I tried to watch GoTG Vol 2 recently and couldn't do it. That one was a joke. The sequence where they are jumping and showing Yondu and Rocket gurning went on for far too long. Ego and, "You are starting to piss me off!" *eye roll*

If Infinity War drops, and has the same approach as either Ragnarok or GoTG 2, then I will be peeved. That one needs to reign it in and at least treat Thanos with some level of seriousness. It is why Winter Soldier is my favourite Marvel film. It had a great balance.

Empire was really dark too. It didn't need constant jokes. Sometimes you want the gravity of the situation to matter.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I agree that core audiences tend to be divided at times. Its not always. The Force Awakens was liked by all. Critics, fans and audiences in general. But this is what it looks like the case here.

However, i disagree about BvS and SS. BvS had a score of B. This is not good. Its weekend multiplier confirmed it. It earned about half of its lifetime earnings worldwide in its first weekend. SS had B+. Its of a more mixed nature. Better then BvS. But not by a lot. I doubt SS 2 will succeed as much as the first one. SS had an advantage of being the last big movie that summer.

The big thing though is that the last two Star Wars films had a phenomenon of they came out to great hype and got excellent reviewes and feedback. Then about a month later that tempered and the criticism came out and then they went from being "arguably the best film of the series" to much lower and somewhere around the realm of Jedi and Sith. TFA and Rogue One were loved and then hated. This is getting hated out of the gate which is interesting to me because I think the good will of the idea of "making up for the prequels" is wearing off and people aren't liking that the new direction is slowly ripping away their old favorites for some cookie cutter characters.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

The big thing though is that the last two Star Wars films had a phenomenon of they came out to great hype and got excellent reviewes and feedback. Then about a month later that tempered and the criticism came out and then they went from being "arguably the best film of the series" to much lower and somewhere around the realm of Jedi and Sith. TFA and Rogue One were loved and then hated. This is getting hated out of the gate which is interesting to me because I think the good will of the idea of "making up for the prequels" is wearing off and people aren't liking that the new direction is slowly ripping away their old favorites for some cookie cutter characters.

Which is sad cause i LOVED Rogue One, i felt that Disney's meddling hurt it's consistency. But it's miles better than TFA.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

See that was humor that actually worked in the context of the story and wasn't played as a wink wink joke that was for the audience. It was a humerous situation that was congruent with what was going on. Not a serious situation characters are just completely making light of to get a funny line in.

[sunofdarkchild]

I also remember people complaining about the humor in TFA, specifically scenes like 'Wgy are you helping me?' 'Because it's the right thing to do.' Pause...'You need a pilot.'

I didn't notice so many jokes in Last Jedi. It certainly doesn't compare to Thor Ragnarok, which was practically a parody of a superhero movie. I didn't have a problem with 'that pretty much is nowhere' and I thought the 'feel thay, that's the force' scene was brilliant. I'm struggling to think of serious moment that were undermined by comedy. Poe has a lot of fun at the very start of the movie at the expense of the First Order Admiral (wrote Imperial at first, just goes to show the issue with this trilogy), but once the fighting actually starts the jokes stop and the losses suffered underscored that Poe was in the wrong.

I don't know. I hear a lot of these complaints, and all I can think is 'why is it this movie that gets these complaints when these problems have all existed before?'

[ZeroBG82]

There would be much more to say about this trainwreck of a flick (like, what did the screenwriter smoke before writing the double bait-and-switch involving code-breakers or whatever they're called? Or why did every Star Destroyer get destroyed in the scene of the sacrifice of the Rebels' main ship, despite following very different paths than Snoke's vessel?) but it's really not worth the effort.

I'm not going to address much of what you had to say, even though I disagree with much of your post. However, on this...

The Raddus plows through Snoke's ship at lightspeed, tearing a huge gash in the ship. All that debris and metal then gets flung into space AT LIGHTSPEED, and it does so in a huge cone behind the wound. All those other ships that were damaged were behind Snoke's vessel. They all took shrapnel damage.

[regnak]

I'm not going to address much of what you had to say, even though I disagree with much of your post. However, on this...

The Raddus plows through Snoke's ship at lightspeed, tearing a huge gash in the ship. All that debris and metal then gets flung into space AT LIGHTSPEED, and it does so in a huge cone behind the wound. All those other ships that were damaged were behind Snoke's vessel. They all took shrapnel damage.

Which makes no sense with what has gone before. That means all the rebels had to do was use the same tactic with an expendable ship against the Death Stars.

[MikeP]

I saw it yesterday.

I'm in the "not impressed" category. I mean, I did have some fun at the time, but overall, I don't like how the theme of the movie is basically to figuratively, (and literally, in the Yoda scene), wipe away all the history of the canon in favor of going in some new direction. I get it, they have to make new stories and new characters. And I'm all for that. But instead of respecting what made Star Wars great and acknowledging its great legacy (even the prequels had great things), they instead choose to flip the bird at all that, and the fans.

Also, I'm kinda over these cookie cutter action sci/fi movies. Its not just Star Wars, but the Marvel movies as well. Really, all the new Disney stuff. I'm starting to predict the beats these movies will go with, and its getting very lame.

I think I'll just skip IX. None of the characters interest me that much anymore. Finn was my favorite, but they seem like they have no idea what they want to do with him.

[sunofdarkchild]

Which makes no sense with what has gone before. That means all the rebels had to do was use the same tactic with an expendable ship against the Death Stars.

We've already seen that a crashing A-Wing can take out a Super Star Destroyer even at sublight speeds. The ease with which Star Destroyers can be destroyed has been analyzed in-depth over the years. As for why a rebel force scrapped for resources doesn't use its relatively few ships on a guaranteed suicide run that automatically kills the pilot as well, there you have it. As for the Death Stars, keep in mind that Snoke's ship wasn't even completely destroyed. Rey, Kylo, Finn, Rose, and thousands of others survived the impact without even serious injury. And the Death Star is far more massive, has an active tractor beam at all times that prevents the use of a hyperdrive from pretty far out, and the second Death Star's shield was explicitly stated to be able to stop ships from getting through. Best case scenario, the rebels get one pilot willing to 100% die and have to aim from so far away there's no guarantee they'll even strike the Death Star, and even then there's a very good chance it won't even damage any vital systems, engines, or the main weapon. The Executor crashing into the second Death Star was like a flee bite, and the rebels having nothing that's even a fraction of that size. They need to aim it right down the throat of the main dish of the laser, and that is another 'one in a million' shot.

[ZeroBG82]

Which makes no sense with what has gone before. That means all the rebels had to do was use the same tactic with an expendable ship against the Death Stars.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Mass traveling at speed will always be the most effective weapon, even more so than fancy energy weapons or Death Stars.

The strategy has several critical failings that make it less than useful. 1) Punching a ship sized hole in a Death Star isn't even a flesh wound. 2) You have to aim at what you want to hit, and they can see you lining up your shot. If this became a known tactic, it would be painfully easy to avoid. 3) Good luck finding enough crazy suicide bombers to make this a regular tactic. 4) Your ammunition is your starships.

And you hit the nail on the head. "Expendable ship." The Raddus is expendable because the fight is an existential threat to the Resistance. By the point we see the Holdo Maneuver, the battle has already been lost. The Resistance is only fighting to escape and survive. Hell, the Raddus was being used as bait and was never meant to survive the engagement anyway! The Rebellion earlier didn't just want to escape with their lives, they wanted to win the overall war. They never got this desperate.

[regnak]

We've already seen that a crashing A-Wing can take out a Super Star Destroyer even at sublight speeds. The ease with which Star Destroyers can be destroyed has been analyzed in-depth over the years. As for why a rebel force scrapped for resources doesn't use its relatively few ships on a guaranteed suicide run that automatically kills the pilot as well, there you have it. As for the Death Stars, keep in mind that Snoke's ship wasn't even completely destroyed. Rey, Kylo, Finn, Rose, and thousands of others survived the impact without even serious injury. And the Death Star is far more massive, has an active tractor beam at all times that prevents the use of a hyperdrive from pretty far out, and the second Death Star's shield was explicitly stated to be able to stop ships from getting through. Best case scenario, the rebels get one pilot willing to 100% die and have to aim from so far away there's no guarantee they'll even strike the Death Star, and even then there's a very good chance it won't even damage any vital systems, engines, or the main weapon. The Executor crashing into the second Death Star was like a flee bite, and the rebels having nothing that's even a fraction of that size. They need to aim it right down the throat of the main dish of the laser, and that is another 'one in a million' shot.

The A-wing took out the bridge after the shield generator was taken out in ROTJ. And like all previous examples of ramming that was done in normal space at sublight speeds. Lightspeed ramming changes the entire dynamic of SW combat so as to make what went before not make sense.

[Joker]

I didn't know people were so mad. I liked it.

[sunofdarkchild]

The A-wing took out the bridge after the shield generator was taken out in ROTJ. And like all previous examples of ramming that was done in normal space at sublight speeds. Lightspeed ramming changes the entire dynamic of SW combat so as to make what went before not make sense.

And how does that effect tractor beams that make it impossible to go to light speed and the need for a pilot to knowingly commit suicide? It's just a kamikazee move that anyone could think of. Once light speed exists anyone can use it to ram something else if they have good enough aim. But it's still a suicide shot and a last resort, and the film shows that it's damage to super-ships is already limited.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I think I'll just skip IX. None of the characters interest me that much anymore. Finn was my favorite, but they seem like they have no idea what they want to do with him.

I agree with this, i doubt his character goes anywhere. If i'm brutally honest he's just there to bring in a periphery demographic of PoC.