STAR WARS The Last Jedi *SPOILERS!*

[Sighphi]

They did continue the story, just not in the way you wanted.

they didnt continue the story the way sequels go.

- Rey found out who her parents were. The answer fit with how they continued her character development and contrasts nicely with Ben Solo's arc. You just didn't like the answer, which isn't really the movie's fault.

- Snoke had precisely as much backstory as Emperor Palpatine did in the original trilogy and what happened in this movie developed and advanced Kylo Ren's story, elevating his position as a villain. It's also basically answering the question "What if Luke & Vader had done what Palpatine suggested in Return of the Jedi?"

- We literally saw the government of the Republic blown to smithereens in the last movie. This one continued on with what happened now that the First Order is the only major power in the galaxy.

1- the issue here was how this person randomly knows how to use the force without any training. People thought that the easiest way to explain this was parents but it turns out that this wasnt the answer.

2- Again, this is a sequel. A sequel continues a story and it should tell us what the story is. They didnt, they just drop stuff there because it's needs to be there. It's not even writing it just bullet points happening.

3- Yes we did. And that caused zero reaction from the republic? How are the FO a major power? How are there no fleets from all member planets being launched to destroy this enemy that they should not have ignored?

These criticisms seem more on the order of being upset that Quicksilver isn't resurrected, reality isn't rewritten to bring in the X-Men into the MCU, the Red Skull doesn't pop out of a Tesseract portal, and Thanos doesn't create a legion of past villains for the final - I.E, all the wild speculation and fan theories don't turn out to be true.

no, ths criticisms are more in the order that they dont have any overall arcs, it's just bullet points being throw out that dont really connect.

it looks like Disney really wanted to dump it all but they backed out and threw the OT people there out of fear and now we have this half sequel half new story that doesnt make sense.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I really enjoyed Rogue One. I thought it was one of the best films in the Star Wars universe ever.

Of all the new movies this is still my favorite by leaps and bounds. I wish the director could have kept it the way he waned. But as is it's soooo good.

[AJBopp]

2- Again, this is a sequel. A sequel continues a story and it should tell us what the story is. They didnt, they just drop stuff there because it's needs to be there. It's not even writing it just bullet points happening.

The Kylo killing Snoke thing seems to be analogous to "what if Vader had killed Palpatine in Empire Strikes Back?"

Thinking on this, I'm kind of interested in what my reaction would have been at the time if this had happened. I think I would have been fine with it.

But it didn't, and the prequels established how important of a character Palpatine was. And because of that, I think, Kylo killing Snoke seems out of place, forced, and even random. Not a point of character development (I'm trying to characterize others' criticisms, not explain my own since I don't have any at this point).

It does seem like this development might have been a bit rushed. Kylo doesn't strike me as fully developed as a character as Vader was at the same point in their relative story arcs, and without the benefit of having experienced the story personally, it still seems like this development wasn't earned.

[AnakinFlair]

Yes, and Luke's attempted rescue was born from his love of his friends, not out of pride or arrogance. And because he drew Vader's attention away, most of them escaped.

Everything about the Resistance in TLJ was just... stupid, and none of their actions made any sense. Poe wanted to blow up a dreadnaught because reasons, even though escaping was the whole damn point. That purple haired admiral was being a bitch and refusing to at least throw him a bone, even when it would have helped (like during the attempted mutiny). It was a comedy of errors, and by the end, I was hoping the First Order would just put them out of their misery.

And nothing in this movie feels epic. Was that the First Order's entire fleet? A few handful of capital ships? It feels less like deciding the fate of the galaxy, and more like two bratty children squabbling over in the corner while everyone else is doing their best to ignore them.

And if that was the entire FO fleet, what are their numbers now compared to the Resistance? I wish we had some sense of scale in how big the Resistance and the First Order was.

I think my biggest problem with this movie was that Holdo stayed on the Republic cruiser to fly it away and draw the First Order off. So when the First Order started destroying the transports, after the first or second one was destroyed she should have pulled that 'ramming the enemy ship at hyperspeed' maneuver, instead of waiting for almost all of the transports to be destroyed.

My second biggest problem was what they did with Phasma. Though I hope she shows up again next movie and tells Finn it was just a scratch

I'm glad that Luke and Leia got one last scene together. I did tear up a bit at that. I actually thought that Carrie Fisher was much better in this movie than she was in TFA, which makes her death all the more heartbreaking. And her death made that scene in space all the more uncomfortable.

Several times when Rey was fighting, it looked like she was tapping into the Dark Side.

I loved when Hux found Kylo in Snoke's quarters after Rey fled, he starts to go for his blaster to make sure Kylo is dead. but as soon as Kylo sits up, he pulls his coat over it to hide it.

It was nice to see the evolution of the Red Guards actually got to fight, and they fought well. I wonder if these were the Jedi students that Luke said Ben took with him?

[The Cool Thatguy]

There's no valid argument in comparing Anakin or Luke to the rest of the Jedi. Anakin is the only known being in the galaxy to born directly from the influence of the Force. The rules are different for the Skywalker family. Both the original trilogy and the prequels made that abundantly clear. And it's precisely the reason that Star Wars is, itself, the Skywalker Saga.

As for indentured servitude and cult and all the rest of it, that's the product of overthinking the story. It's a space fantasy. If you start applying the rules of 21st century Earth to Star Wars (or Lord Of The Rings or Blade Runner or Conan or Cinderella) you'll always find excuses to be disappointed. Fantasy stories aren't meant to work that way.

Except that it's not overthinking it, as in the prequels, they start with taking a force gifted away from his family, and ends with the twins being given to new families instead of being trained.

More than that, you act like I'm putting it under a microscope. Everything I cited were active plot points. I'm not using fridge logic, I'm using the plots themselves.

[AJBopp]

Except that it's not overthinking it, as in the prequels, they start with taking a force gifted away from his family, and ends with the twins being given to new families instead of being trained.

More than that, you act like I'm putting it under a microscope. Everything I cited were active plot points. I'm not using fridge logic, I'm using the plots themselves.

Except it is overthinking it, and you are putting it under a microscope, and they are not active plot points.

[tabo61]

The First Orders demise has begun. Kylo's way too unstable to lead.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Except it is overthinking it, and you are putting it under a microscope, and they are not active plot points.

How? That Annie was to old to be trained was flat out stated, and we see younger children being trained. That he had to hide his relationship with a plot point that drove him away from the order and into Sidious' arms.

That's basic observation, not a microscope.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The First Orders demise has begun. Kylo's way too unstable to lead.

It's unraveling should be interesting. Best in fight hardly means he has what it takes to keep the empire together.

Hell, outside of those within his immediate reach, how does he even govern?

[AJBopp]

How? That Annie was to old to be trained was flat out stated, and we see younger children being trained. That he had to hide his relationship with a plot point that drove him away from the order and into Sidious' arms.

That's basic observation, not a microscope.

What drove him away was his feelings for his mother. Everything else - everything, even Padme - stemmed from that.

Sorry, my initial reaction was meant to make a point, but it was dickish way to do it. One of the things that really sets me off is when a reply begins with "Except...." It's immediately dismissive and condescending.

Also, it's good to remember that, as far as plot points go, no Jedi for a thousand years or more had turned to the dark side. They must have figured out something that was right.

[choptop]

I think it was at least better than TFA

[MikeP]

I think 'mistakes' was a big part of what this movie was about.

LOL I can certainly see in the new trilogy Star Wars universe the winner is ultimately not the one who does the best, but the one who fails the least.

Oh, it was about mistakes for sure. But there is a huge difference between a tragic mistake born from the best intentions of a character due to character flaws or events out of their control, and pig headed mistakes from sheer stupidity. The former earns my sympathy and respect. The latter make me root for the "bad guys".

That is why you really need good writers and a well planned story. This lacked both.

[MikeP]

And if that was the entire FO fleet, what are their numbers now compared to the Resistance? I wish we had some sense of scale in how big the Resistance and the First Order was.

Unless I see otherwise, all I can assume is what we see is what we have. The First Order isn't ruling anything, which means the Resistance isn't a rebel alliance, its just another faction fighting for control.

[PyroTwilight]

Honestly having watched the film yesterday. The big thing that amazes me is that it seems to contradict/update the prior films in at least 2 ways.

1) Kylo/Ben killing the other students. He killed SOME and apparently RECRUITED others who we haven't explicitly seen on screen now. Last film he supposedly killed them all. But now he and Rey aren't even the only plot related force users of this "current" generation and leaves quite a few potentially open for use in the next film and similar.

2) Everything about Luke's growth in the original trilogy seems tossed aside. I mean wasn't his whole growth about how he wouldn't in the end make the same mistakes the Jedi did because where the others saw Vader as only evil he saw the potential for good in him even though he's immersed in the dark side? IE He'd work as a Jedi to train but not follow their words so strictly because it made so many messes?

I'm sure there's others. But yeah. I did LOVE this film but I can tell it was built to be a gut punch to everyone new and old. Course I'm still not certain that
A) Snoke is really gone.

B) Rey's parents really mean nothing.


Though I do love the idea that the Force makes opposites in the force. So no matter what new users are always gong to be out there. Wonder why they didn't though in all those years between the Prequels and original trilogy though...

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Unless I see otherwise, all I can assume is what we see is what we have. The First Order isn't ruling anything, which means the Resistance isn't a rebel alliance, its just another faction fighting for control.

As mentioned before Battlefront 2 DLC claimed that they had enough forces to reclaim the galaxy. Rian seemed like he threw out so much set up, who even knows if that's even canon anymore.