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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanguard-01 View Post
    Yep. A Corellian corvette costs a fraction of what a Star Destroyer costs. The Rebellion could've just bought a few hundred of them and decimated any Imperial fleet sent against them. Heck, a couple of corvettes in a lightspeed ram may have been enough to at least badly damage the Death Star!
    this brings up another point, how shields work in Star Wars. It seems they only block energy attacks, because Poe can take out ships surface guns by getting in close. The DS 2 has a shield strong enough to block physical objects like ships, but this is clearly a planetary shield like the one type in Rogue One.

    So if physical objects can get through then light speed ramming could indeed work. But there must be a reason it is almost never used.

    Yeah, the easiest way to disregard it is to just say it's actually not that easy to pull off. At that kind of speed, being just a degree or two off may mean you completely miss the mark.
    I wS thinking the same. However, in that case building ships like the Executor, Snoaks flagship, or a DS is obviously folly.

    You'll have to talk to George Lucas about that one. We first saw bombs being dropped in Empire Strikes Back. The Star Wars Universe runs on the premise of "If it resembles World War II combat, it's A-Okay!"
    The Tie Bombers, yes. But I always believed that those bombs were being propelled by something other than just gravity, and of course the asteroids we saw would have much more mass than a ship, even a very big ship. Also the Y-Wings are called bombers, but they are armed with torpedoes (either proton or ion).

    Regarding the comment above about banking, that is understandable because of the g-forces pulled during combat. Also in this movie we see Poe use a pivot (like a BSG Viper) for the first time.
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  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    It's a really crappy way to end the Skywalker story (and yes, Kathleen Kennedy has called it a "family saga"). "They suck so much, that random girl from the desert needs to come in to fix their mess." Also 2/3 of the generations were evil murderers, and the good ones were just abject failures.

    And yet again, if her parents are nobodies, JUST SAY THAT IN TFA!!! Don't drag out the "reveal" for this long.
    Wow, that was totally worth the 30 year wait (sarcasm). And the worst part is, there's even LESS reason to do this since we have anthology films that are all about "doing different things."
    All of this is why she's still going to be a Skywalker. I'm just not buying the cover story. At all. A Skywalker's tragic fall aided in the downfall of the Republic. His son and daughter and then later himself upon redemption aided in the downfall of the Empire and restoration of the Republic. The son however inadvertently leads to another threat of its fall. The third generation, the granddaughter, saves it before it concretely can fall again and ensures the survival of what her family worked so hard set the foundation for in the first place. The end.

    Maybe I'm just far more optimistic than you. But I think its more than just blind optimism. From who gave the "reveal", to the purposely anti-climactic nature of it, to the way stuff Abrams is involved in generally approaches things (he's now directing the third installment which I believe will make the final reveal), I think the stage is set for a twist. Furthermore one theme of this film was clearly intentioned to be "take things Empire did, and then turn them around on their head". Vader told Luke in V that he was his father. After three years of fan speculation on whether it was truth or lie, VI confirmed he was telling the truth. Kylo Ren tells Rey here that she's the daughter of common scavengers. IX will reveal that he was lying.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 12-15-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Lets see here:

    -I hated what they did with Luke here. Basically he dies having failed at everything that he tried to do. He's also written way OOC here. And no, another FG situation is not near good enough to make up for that.

    -Rey was a freaking idiot here, and her dynamic with Kylo was cringe-inducing. And it's even worse if you figure how shortly after TFA this is meant to be taking place. And there's far less reason to care about their conflict now imo.

    -Rey's parents being nobodies would have been fine with me IF a. they hadn't ripped the Skywalker legacy apart completely, and b. they wouldn't have dragged out telling us that for so freaking long. As it stands, it feels like pointless secrecy, which is irritating.

    -I feel bad for John Boyega. He's the fanboy out of the new cast, he was the one trumpeting these films, and they gave him little to work with. At least in TFA he felt like he needed to be there. Here, it's like Rian Johnson couldn't be bothered much with him and so shoved him into some underwhelming subplot (heck even people that like the film overall have criticized his role in it), they drastically underplay his dynamic with Rey here, and he doesn't really accomplish much. Also I know quite a few Finn fans who HATED that last scene on Canto Bright. He feels superfluous here.

    -The Poe/Holdo conflict felt like a case of plot-induced stupidity on both sides. Oh and I hated the "slap" scene, so unnecessary.

    -Snoke went out like a punk, which was disappointing.

    -I felt like most of the deaths here felt really underwhelming. Only one really felt earned to me, and it wasn't the one that you'd expect. Han's death alone surpassed any here imo.

    -Benicio del Toro was wasted here. As was Gwendoline Christie.

    -Etc.

    I almost walked out of this, and the only reason that I didn't is that I've never walked out of a film early before and didn't want to give this movie the satisfaction of being my first one.

    Honestly I don't have much enthusiasm for Episode IX now.
    Of all the deaths Ackbar’s own was the worst.

    So unceremonious...
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    They stated before Carrie's passing the plan was the first film to center around Han, the second Luke, and the third Leia.

    It will be fun to see how/where they go now.
    A movie centred around C3PO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Of all the deaths Ackbar’s own was the worst.

    So unceremonious...
    Agree, that sucked so bad.

    Would have been awesom for him to have executed the ramming Attack and just before he did Huxx gets a message from the bridge officer.

    "Sir, message coming in from the resistance cruiser. Text only."

    "Another message! What does this one say? An offer to accept our surrender?"

    "No sir. Message reads... (Officer looks up) 'It's a trap.' "

    Huxx whirls in panic towards the viewport.

    Kaboom.
    Last edited by brettc1; 12-15-2017 at 02:05 PM.
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  5. #80
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    Overall, I’m in the camp that’s baffled by this movie.

    The plot is soooooo padded and several sub-plots were boring wastes of time. Particularly the Casino planet and Star Destroyer plan, they literally went nowhere. Even Poe’s plans were series of failures.

    That being said, Poe was great in this movie but Finn really has no reason to be in these movies again and is basically a waste of Boyega. Carrie Fisher was great as Leia but “Superwoman” Leia was corny as f-all and Snoke was totally wasted (he got the Marvel movie villain treatment). Adam Driver as Kylo Ren really carries these movies and that guy is just great.

    Mark Hamill was great as Like but Disney have taken a big steaming dump on Luke’s legacy. Luke abandoning the Jedi and Ben Solo was an utter failure and running off to an island to die reeks of cowardice. I don’t know what Lucasfilm were thinking developing Luke like this because the Skywalkers have ended in failure. Luke should NEVER have raised his lightsaber at young Kylo even though he saw darkness in him, that’s terrible writing and Kylo is right to be pissed. Luke’s journey was basically become a Jedi, establish a new Jedi Order, fail woefully, get persuaded to come back only to then DIE! Again, Disney really dropped the ball here and I can see why Hamill (and Lucas) initially had serious reservations.

    I also don’t like the fact that Lucasfilm are crowbarring the universe to post-Sith/pre New Hope era with the First Order being the new Empire and the Resistance being the new Rebel alliance. Things should go forward not backwards.

    Captain Phasma was a nothing so was Del Toro’s character. Like why were they even the movie?

    So what happened to the Knights of REN (were they the cannon fodder guys in red in Snoke’s throne room?), where are the other Jedi trainees? Snoke turned Kylo over to the dark side, why? (we’ll probably never find out), who was Snoke? where did he come from? there are still questions that will probably never be answered.

    On a totally unrelated note, the critic rating on RT is 93% (8.3 average) but the audience score is 57% (3.4/5 average). This basically means that audiences are sharply divided and that score is likely going to go further down as more and more people see the movie.
    Last edited by Username taken; 12-15-2017 at 02:28 PM.
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  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnusRex View Post
    Nope. The First Order only knew because Finn and Rose was on the ship and DJ sold them out. Had they said what the plan was in the first place, and put Poe in check, none of that would have happened.
    I actually liked that. Our heroes royally messed up for a change. Rey fell for Snoke's trap. Poe was insubordinate. Finn was sold out by DJ. For all that youthful ambition and drive, they set the Resistance back considerably. It subverts the whole idea that our heroes have to be perfect, and it goes back to Yoda's warning to Luke before he left for Cloud City in Ep. 5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    It's a really crappy way to end the Skywalker story (and yes, Kathleen Kennedy has called it a "family saga"). "They suck so much, that random girl from the desert needs to come in to fix their mess." Also 2/3 of the generations were evil murderers, and the good ones were just abject failures."
    I'm not arguing about execution of themes or opinion of the movie, but the bolded part is at least consistent with what Luke thinks of his predecessors in the prequels. He said so as much when he outright name dropped Darth Sidious and mentioned Jedi Anakin.
    Last edited by Cyke; 12-15-2017 at 02:34 PM.

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    All of this is why she's still going to be a Skywalker. I'm just not buying the cover story. At all. A Skywalker's tragic fall aided in the downfall of the Republic. His son and daughter and then later himself upon redemption aided in the downfall of the Empire and restoration of the Republic. The son however inadvertently leads to another threat of its fall. The third generation, the granddaughter, saves it before it concretely can fall again and ensures the survival of what her family worked so hard set the foundation for in the first place. The end.

    Maybe I'm just far more optimistic than you. But I think its more than just blind optimism. From who gave the "reveal", to the purposely anti-climactic nature of it, to the way stuff Abrams is involved in generally approaches things (he's now directing the third installment which I believe will make the final reveal), I think the stage is set for a twist. Furthermore one theme of this film was clearly intentioned to be "take things Empire did, and then turn them around on their head". Vader told Luke in V that he was his father. After three years of fan speculation on whether it was truth or lie, VI confirmed he was telling the truth. Kylo Ren tells Rey here that she's the daughter of common scavengers. IX will reveal that he was lying.
    You might be right about the next film revealing Rey to be a Skywalker, but I'm pretty sure Johnson meant for her to be exactly what he said: a child of nobodies. Johnson, iirc, was given carte blanche to do what he wanted with the script and said that there were no set plot points. Basically JJ Abrams was making it up as he went along and Johnson did the same. I think if it proves very unpopular Abrams might well come up with a Skywalker reveal for the next film, but in no way do I believe Johnson intended it as a fake-out.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    All this whining about characters failing - it’s almost as if learning from failures was a specific theme explicitly stated by canonically the wisest character in the series.

  9. #84
    Jesus Christ, redeemer! The Whovian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Rey's parentage will no doubt be addressed once Episode 9 comes out. But I don't see them touching upon Snoke. If they do, it'll probably be in a novel. Would it really be worth disclosing his origins in Episode 9 at this point? The guy is dead.
    That's my point. Snoke's origin should have been revealed in THIS movie because now it doesn't really matter.
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  10. #85
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    Again, I just hope Lando isn’t dragged into this mess!

    They will probably just kill him off mid-movie.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    You might be right about the next film revealing Rey to be a Skywalker, but I'm pretty sure Johnson meant for her to be exactly what he said: a child of nobodies. Johnson, iirc, was given carte blanche to do what he wanted with the script and said that there were no set plot points. Basically JJ Abrams was making it up as he went along and Johnson did the same. I think if it proves very unpopular Abrams might well come up with a Skywalker reveal for the next film, but in no way do I believe Johnson intended it as a fake-out.
    I agree. It wasn’t a fake out.

    After Kylo said it, he asked Rey to search herself and she basically confirmed it.

    But you can never tell because it seems that Lucasfilm is thinking of this stuff as they go along. They could just as well change it.
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  12. #87
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    I enjoyed this one. Kylos arc made it for me. I agree with him, its time to let go of the past and build something new. Plus if Luke tried to kill me in my sleep id want to blow it all up too, lol.

  13. #88
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    Gotta say regardless of all the criticism Finn got in the last movie . Atleast it felt like he was the star or atleast a star of the last movie with some shades of him becoming a Jedi. Here he's clearly established as a B character with no potential of becoming a Jedi. Which is kinda disappointing.

    Luke failing so miserably and quickly Kylo was kind of shocking. Even though I'd say Ren killing his father probably proved him right, not the killing him in his sleep thing but him being turned with no going back yeah. And yoda shouldn't have had to show up to tell him not to lose Rey. I feel like there needs to be a little more exposition here on how things went so bad in just 30 years.

    Not buying Rey being a nobody it's starting to feel like a Luke ,Leia thing with her and Kylo.

  14. #89
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Gotta say regardless of all the criticism Finn got in the last movie . Atleast it felt like he was the star or atleast a star of the last movie with some shades of him becoming a Jedi. Here he's clearly established as a B character with no potential of becoming a Jedi. Which is kinda disappointing.

    Luke failing so miserably and quickly Kylo was kind of shocking. Even though I'd say Ren killing his father probably proved him right, not the killing him in his sleep thing but him being turned with no going back yeah. And yoda shouldn't have had to show up to tell him not to lose Rey. I feel like there needs to be a little more exposition here on how things went so bad in just 30 years.

    Not buying Rey being a nobody it's starting to feel like a Luke ,Leia thing with her and Kylo.
    It's easy to see how things went so wrong. A Jedi "master" who's training amounted to running around a swamp with a goblin on his back and doing handstands decides he can train a bunch of new Jedis. How else could it have gone?

    And I disagree about Rey's parents. If Kylo descends from legends, it makes sense that she comes from nothing. She's the yin to his yang.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffHanger2 View Post
    Gotta say regardless of all the criticism Finn got in the last movie . Atleast it felt like he was the star or atleast a star of the last movie with some shades of him becoming a Jedi. Here he's clearly established as a B character with no potential of becoming a Jedi. Which is kinda disappointing.

    Luke failing so miserably and quickly Kylo was kind of shocking. Even though I'd say Ren killing his father probably proved him right, not the killing him in his sleep thing but him being turned with no going back yeah. And yoda shouldn't have had to show up to tell him not to lose Rey. I feel like there needs to be a little more exposition here on how things went so bad in just 30 years.

    Not buying Rey being a nobody it's starting to feel like a Luke ,Leia thing with her and Kylo.
    If I have to choose between more Poe or more Finn, I'll take Poe any day.

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