STAR WARS The Last Jedi *SPOILERS!*

[CliffHanger2]

It's easy to see how things went so wrong. A Jedi "master" who's training amounted to running around a swamp with a goblin on his back and doing handstands decides he can train a bunch of new Jedis. How else could it have gone?

And I disagree about Rey's parents. If Kylo descends from legends, it makes sense that she comes from nothing. She's the yin to his yang.

Okay so yoda's training sucked too but it worked. And Luke was able to turn Vader at the end but couldn't handle his own nephew who hadn't even killed anybody yet? It's just needs a little more explanation. Maybe you're right about Rey and Kylo but the ppl in these movies with all the high level force energy at a young age seem to be from the same family.

My other question was why Phasma was the only one with ray deflecting armor, they need to give that **** to the troops lol.

[Ken Ashcroft]

And I disagree about Rey's parents. If Kylo descends from legends, it makes sense that she comes from nothing. She's the yin to his yang.

Like Obi-Wan was to Anakin?

[CliffHanger2]

If I have to choose between more Poe or more Finn, I'll take Poe any day.

I like Finn but after seeing this movie I could see how anyone would say that.

[Sammael]

Further thoughts.

I kind of understand the sentiment about the legacy of Luke skywalker, he was totally dunked on. It did not bother me as much as some others, but it would have been nice to see him actually face off against that many blasters and kylo. At the very least it would have been nice to get a feat of strength aside from the force ghost across space. How would a luke vs snoke encounter have gone? So many potential scenes that were just not contemplated or given.

Consider that bioware showcase more enthralling battles with BLUR animations than happened in this movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ToztqqDcaY#t=2m36s

[Coal Tiger]

Like Obi-Wan was to Anakin?

No, Obi-Wan wasn't the balance to Anakin. He was his failed teacher.

[Coal Tiger]

Okay so yoda's training sucked too but it worked. And Luke was able to turn Vader at the end but couldn't handle his own nephew who hadn't even killed anybody yet? It's just needs a little more explanation. Maybe you're right about Rey and Kylo but the ppl in these movies with all the high level force energy at a young age seem to be from the same family.

My other question was why Phasma was the only one with ray deflecting armor, they need to give that **** to the troops lol.

What worked about Yoda's training? First, Luke gets his ass kicked by an old man with one arm. Then he goes back, gets more training, defeats the man with one arm and then gets nearly killed by the Emperor.

Also, I think we're really overstating Luke "turning" Vader. Vader chose to save his son's life. If anything, the Emperor turned him by torturing his son.

[Bossace]

I don’t know why thinking more about this movie makes me more shocked...

My man C3PO deserved more than a wink
Chewbacca was reduced to comedic relief with Porgos
Twice I’ve been teased with phasma scenes now they have let me down and the sad part is I enjoy the actress in GOT she deserves better
I wonder when the super Leia memes will happen like that whole scene I can’t get over how ridiculous it was
The shirtless Kylo scene? “Put a cowl on”

I will say the movie I want bad it just left me shocked and more wtf moments in not a good way. I think I expected more and I’m not sure how I feel about Rian heralding a new trilogy

[CliffHanger2]

What worked about Yoda's training? First, Luke gets his ass kicked by an old man with one arm. Then he goes back, gets more training, defeats the man with one arm and then gets nearly killed by the Emperor.

Also, I think we're really overstating Luke "turning" Vader. Vader chose to save his son's life. If anything, the Emperor turned him by torturing his son.

The Emperor killed a bunch of Jedi and mortally wounded Vader.So that doesn't really count and to the last sentence I'd say most people don't see it that way.

[Gray Lensman]

I remember reading that Phasma's armor was salvage - the troops don't have it because there isn't much of it. The one person who does customized her suit to begin with.

And putting her and Finn against each other was a losing proposition from the start. Either Phasma isn't as impressive as advertised (Boba Fett all over again!) or Finn is a loser who comes out on the bad side of every one-on-one fight he gets into (he lost twice in the first film, although the duel against Kylo is a given). There wasn't a good outcome to that fight for the audience.

[Coal Tiger]

The Emperor killed a bunch of Jedi and mortally wounded Vader.So that doesn't really count and to the last sentence I'd say most people don't see it that way.

Ok. What did Luke do to turn Vader?

[Carabas]

No, Obi-Wan wasn't the balance to Anakin. He was his failed teacher.

I strongly feel it was more a shared failure between the entire Jedi Council in Anakin's case.

[ZeroBG82]

Ok. What did Luke do to turn Vader?

He had faith that Anakin was still in there somewhere. You're right in that Vader only acts in the end to save his son (hurting his family has always been his trigger), but part of what motivates him to that action is the recognition that he still has a son to save. If Luke had been all "You're not my father, you're the monster that killed him!", Anakin never would have broken through. But Luke wants to save him. Luke only faces the Emperor because he wants to save Anakin.

Luke loved. That's what he did to turn Vader. Anakin's corrupted and obsessive love for Padme created Vader. Luke's innocent and unconditional love for his father destroyed Vader.

I strongly feel it was more a shared failure between the entire Jedi Council in Anakin's case.

Absolutely true. But Obi-Wan has to bear the harshest burden. He knew Anakin better than anybody. They were like brothers, in his own words. And he couldn't, or wouldn't, see the truth of what was raging inside his friend. Obi-Wan's failure was never in not being a good enough teacher, a good enough example. It was in being a poor friend. Some of that is structural, Obi-wan only has the tools he has been given to draw on, and what the Jedi teach doesn't get at the root of what's conflicted inside Anakin. But not recognizing in Skywalker the emotional landmines that explode into Vader, and taking steps to help his friend deal with them is very much Obi-wan's fault.

[CliffHanger2]

Ok. What did Luke do to turn Vader?

C'mon man what didn't he do? All that never stop believing ****. "Father I see the conflict in you" blah,blah,blah "I see the good in you." "Anakin is your true self" He could've killed him and didn't classic turn stuff. And Vader admits Luke saved him at the of ROTJ.

[BeastieRunner]

Maybe I'm just far more optimistic than you. But I think its more than just blind optimism. From who gave the "reveal", to the purposely anti-climactic nature of it, to the way stuff Abrams is involved in generally approaches things (he's now directing the third installment which I believe will make the final reveal), I think the stage is set for a twist. Furthermore one theme of this film was clearly intentioned to be "take things Empire did, and then turn them around on their head". Vader told Luke in V that he was his father. After three years of fan speculation on whether it was truth or lie, VI confirmed he was telling the truth. Kylo Ren tells Rey here that she's the daughter of common scavengers. IX will reveal that he was lying.

I'm pretty sure we'll get a Force Ghost Luke talking to Rey scene that explains this. Part of me thinks we'll get some Force Ghost Obi and Yoda talking to Rey, too, with a lot of humor.

Y: "Younger you seem, yes."
O: "I like this version of myself better. Before the Dark Times. Before I went bald."
L: "You had hair? No way ..."
R: "FOCUS! I need help."

A movie centred around C3PO?

Probably around the new trio: Rey, Finn, and Poe. Creating the new Resistance. Poe takes command, Finn grows a spine, Rey inspires new Jedi. In fact, I'm willing to wager money on Finn taking the kill shot that screws up the First Order.

All this whining about characters failing - it’s almost as if learning from failures was a specific theme explicitly stated by canonically the wisest character in the series.

Shocking isn't it!?

That's my point. Snoke's origin should have been revealed in THIS movie because now it doesn't really matter.

Who says it's over? He clearly manipulated Rey and Kylo. He was messing with her in the cavern of mirrors. He said so himself. Maybe he IS the Dark Side. Still have one more movie.

And I'm sure there will be some explanation in IX.

And if doesn't satisfy most, I'm sure they'll be a book, comic, TV show, or movie to fill the gap.

It's easy to see how things went so wrong. A Jedi "master" who's training amounted to running around a swamp with a goblin on his back and doing handstands decides he can train a bunch of new Jedis. How else could it have gone?

And I disagree about Rey's parents. If Kylo descends from legends, it makes sense that she comes from nothing. She's the yin to his yang.

I'm beginning to see that more now too and I like that.

My other question was why Phasma was the only one with ray deflecting armor, they need to give that **** to the troops lol.

Probably rare or expensive as Hell!

And putting her and Finn against each other was a losing proposition from the start. Either Phasma isn't as impressive as advertised (Boba Fett all over again!) or Finn is a loser who comes out on the bad side of every one-on-one fight he gets into (he lost twice in the first film, although the duel against Kylo is a given). There wasn't a good outcome to that fight for the audience.

Better than a blind guy killing you with no fanfare, amiright?

[CliffHanger2]

He had faith that Anakin was still in there somewhere. You're right in that Vader only acts in the end to save his son (hurting his family has always been his trigger), but part of what motivates him to that action is the recognition that he still has a son to save. If Luke had been all "You're not my father, you're the monster that killed him!", Anakin never would have broken through. But Luke wants to save him. Luke only faces the Emperor because he wants to save Anakin.

Luke loved. That's what he did to turn Vader. Anakin's corrupted and obsessive love for Padme created Vader. Luke's innocent and unconditional love for his father destroyed Vader.

.

That's what I'm saying he should have been able to do the same for Ben solo who let's face was a lot more innocent than Vader was.