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  1. #1066
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Another interesting take


  2. #1067
    Mighty Member RikWriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor-of-Dragons View Post
    Another interesting take

    Not that interesting and not original either. Heard it many times. I can't speak for everyone, but that's not what ruined it for me. I personally had no theories in which I was that heavily invested.

  3. #1068
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    Well, I loved it. I'm an old time fan, and I thought it was the best SW film to date. The more I saw it the more I appreciated it. It showed how there are always shades of grey in any conflict, heroes are flawed and not all 'villains' a black hearted monsters. The acting, especially by Driver and Hamill, was first rate. Whatever other people thought of it, it worked for me!

  4. #1069
    Formerly Blackdragon6 Emperor-of-Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    Not that interesting and not original either. Heard it many times. I can't speak for everyone, but that's not what ruined it for me. I personally had no theories in which I was that heavily invested.
    TBF he addressed the other issues people had with it as well.

  5. #1070
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    Not that interesting and not original either. Heard it many times. I can't speak for everyone, but that's not what ruined it for me. I personally had no theories in which I was that heavily invested.
    Yah, theories are just theories. I think everyone knows that. Its the movie that people decide on, not their expectations.

    The closest I can think of to what he is talking about was all the theories about each and every Harry Potter book/film. I was particularly fond of the Ron is Dumbledore theory. But to say it ruined the movie for me is overthinking things. I just thought it was boring to drag out the story with 50 million years of them going camping.

    Funny that the people who believe they have such amazing influence over all of us are trying to do it again.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 01-20-2018 at 12:26 PM.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  6. #1071
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    I don't have to prove you wrong. I was there, I remember the love for that movie. I remember the comics selling out of the stands and the toys selling out of the store. Some people didn't like certain parts of it? Sure. But a widespread fan backlash such that a good percentage of fans thought it was a bad movie? Horseshit.
    True this. I was around for the movies too. Everyone I knew loved Empire. We thought (and still do) that it was the best of the trilogy. It was Return that had more backlash.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  7. #1072
    Astonishing Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
    I don't have to prove you wrong. I was there, I remember the love for that movie. I remember the comics selling out of the stands and the toys selling out of the store. Some people didn't like certain parts of it? Sure. But a widespread fan backlash such that a good percentage of fans thought it was a bad movie? Horseshit.
    This 1000x. I was there too. This film was loved. It did not have a happy ending which is why people didn't re-watch it as often. But it was absolutely loved by the fanbase and by the generals media.

    FWIW, Return Of The Jedi was loved too, including the Ewoks.
    Why yes, I AM a Mark Goodson/Bill Toddman production.

  8. #1073
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    FWIW. I thought TLJ was pretty damn good. I did not expect what happened, especiall with Snoak. And I loved Hamil.
    I still find Ren to be a weak villain. Though who could ever compare to Vader. Still better than Palpatine in I-III.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  9. #1074
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
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    I saw Empire in 1980 with my dad in a Hawaii Drive In. Saw Star Wars in a drive in, too, but here in Maine. I was WTF about the Vader reveal in Empire...

    I agree that it was well loved. Gritty for the day/genre.
    Original join date: sometime in 2002

  10. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    FWIW. I thought TLJ was pretty damn good. I did not expect what happened, especiall with Snoak. And I loved Hamil.
    I still find Ren to be a weak villain. Though who could ever compare to Vader. Still better than Palpatine in I-III.
    TBH I don't thing Ren was ever meant to be a true villain, in the sense of the word, as Vader was. He's a character with so many layers its hard to categorise him; essentially he's a victim, of Snoke's abuse, his parents neglect, his uncle's terrible mistake, and this has damaged him horrendously. If anyone has the qualities of a true villain it's Hux - although sometimes played for laughs Gleeson's character has frequently shown signs of real evil throughout both films, remember who was truly responsible for the destruction of the New Republic.

  11. #1076
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    TBH I don't thing Ren was ever meant to be a true villain, in the sense of the word, as Vader was. He's a character with so many layers its hard to categorise him; essentially he's a victim, of Snoke's abuse, his parents neglect, his uncle's terrible mistake, and this has damaged him horrendously. If anyone has the qualities of a true villain it's Hux - although sometimes played for laughs Gleeson's character has frequently shown signs of real evil throughout both films, remember who was truly responsible for the destruction of the New Republic.
    I agree with this. I should have used antagonist instead of villain. But as the main antagonist he is somewhat lacking. I liked the interplay with him and Rey, it was at the end when he came off more whinely that mad/evil. Though considering the turn of events in this movie, I can't predict how he will turn out.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  12. #1077
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Okay, having finally seen the movie (I was moving in December) I wonder what is the popular opinion about who Snoak is. I can't read through 70+ pages here to find that discussion.
    I remember all sorts of theories after TFA. But in TLJ I got no more than he is a powerful Dark Lord, no revelations about his past that I caught. No connections to Ren or Rey. (other than Master/Apprentice)
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  13. #1078
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Personally i love Kylo as a villain. He is not Darth Vader. But he is a really good antagonist. Unlike the cold and calculated Vader he is driven by his whims and passions. Which is really what Dark Side is about. Giving in to your worst feelings and impulses. Giving into hate and anger. He is the perfect person for the dark side.

    Some people don't see that and call him something like a whiny kid. Its not their fault. Till now we have seen the Darth Vader brand of villainy. And Kylo is quite different from Darth Vader who happens to be the gold standard.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 01-21-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  14. #1079
    Mighty Member RikWriter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    Okay, having finally seen the movie (I was moving in December) I wonder what is the popular opinion about who Snoak is. I can't read through 70+ pages here to find that discussion.
    I remember all sorts of theories after TFA. But in TLJ I got no more than he is a powerful Dark Lord, no revelations about his past that I caught. No connections to Ren or Rey. (other than Master/Apprentice)
    He seemed like a waste.

  15. #1080
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Personally i love Kylo as a villain. He is not Darth Vader. But he is a really good antagonist. Unlike the cold and calculated Vader he is driven by his whims and passions. Which is really what Dark Side is about. Giving in to your worst feelings and impulses. Giving into hate and anger. He is the perfect person for the dark side.

    Some people don't see that and call him something like a whiny kid. Its not their fault. Till now we have seen the Darth Vader brand of villainy. And Kylo is quite different from Darth Vader who happens to be the gold standard.
    I see what you are saying. Maybe I had too much whining from Anakin in Ep. I-III
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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