STAR WARS The Last Jedi *SPOILERS!*

[Mia]

Well, I loved it. I'm an old time fan, and I thought it was the best SW film to date. The more I saw it the more I appreciated it. It showed how there are always shades of grey in any conflict, heroes are flawed and not all 'villains' a black hearted monsters. The acting, especially by Driver and Hamill, was first rate. Whatever other people thought of it, it worked for me!

Interesting, I thought that I was the only one with that view. I saw it yesterday for the third time, and strangely enough, although I had seen it before and knew what was going to happen, I actually found myself transfixed. It's been awhile since I could say that about any film.

TBH I don't thing Ren was ever meant to be a true villain, in the sense of the word, as Vader was. He's a character with so many layers its hard to categorise him; essentially he's a victim, of Snoke's abuse, his parents neglect, his uncle's terrible mistake, and this has damaged him horrendously. If anyone has the qualities of a true villain it's Hux - although sometimes played for laughs Gleeson's character has frequently shown signs of real evil throughout both films, remember who was truly responsible for the destruction of the New Republic.

I don’t like Ren as a villain. He seems to be acting out more due to resentment than anything else.
That being said, I just recently watched a documentary on a killer in Canada by the name of Dellen Millard. A real monster and a psychopath. He seemed to fancy himself as some kind of criminal mastermind and that’s much of the impetus for his activities. The kind of guy who thinks that heroes/good guys are weak people. I think that Ren is a bit like that guy, he’s pushing away from his parents (whether out of resentment or the fact that he doesn’t think he can live up to their reputation) and has turned to the First Order. Pretty much the same reason that guys join Isis and other terrorist groups or facisist groups. To feel powerful and strong. Snoke just fed on Ren’s need to feel powerful.

Okay, having finally seen the movie (I was moving in December) I wonder what is the popular opinion about who Snoak is. I can't read through 70+ pages here to find that discussion.
I remember all sorts of theories after TFA. But in TLJ I got no more than he is a powerful Dark Lord, no revelations about his past that I caught. No connections to Ren or Rey. (other than Master/Apprentice)

I don’t see why people are carping on needing a reason to know Snoke’s background. A cursory look at history and the news should tell you how such a man came to power. Just look at Vladimir Putin. He probably joined the organization and slowly began to work his way up by any means necessary. And it pretty much turns out I was right.

[Kirby101]

I read around the internet and it seems Snoke doesn't have a backstory, just as the Emperor in the first trilogy didn't.
I only asked because of so much speculation on how he was related to Rey or Ren.
But okay, he's an evil force weilding alien who got over confident.

[Mia]

My issue was the fact the story never progressed to anywhere. It's like they don't have a destination other than to recycle the status quo of Rebels vs Empire. That bothered me more so than how Luke was portrayed, or the no reveal of Rey's parentage (which i'm fine with tbh). But above all else i frankly found the film boring. It LOOKED good, but i was just bored to tears. There's no sense of adventure, no real thrilling action, nothing. It's the same feeling i had with TFA. Outside of Rogue One, the Disney films are boring as shit.

This reminds me of when Blade Runner 2049 was out and the reactions people made were it’s all about slaves rising up against their masters. And I was just left gobsmacked by the fact that all people could take out that film. When there was so much more to it. (It also reminded of how people couldn’t see why Belle found Gaston so revolting in last years’ Beauty and The Beast.)

There was so much depth to this film, so many things to pick out. I will grant you , much of the action was a character study and progression of growth than wall to wall fights. There was also some mystery where nothing was what it seemed. I honestly don’t understand how people can’t see this. But then gain maybe I can, Since it seems as if American audiences don’t like depth or anything that is cerebral. I am not a SW fan. The only film I liked prior to this was the Phantom Menace (which Lucas tried to add some depth to).

People in the 80s didn't proclaim their childhood was dead like we do in the 2010s. And the TLJ backlash is a small, vocal minority.

So again, prove me wrong.

Which is why it’s hard to take these complaints seriously.

[Mia]

I read around the internet and it seems Snoke doesn't have a backstory, just as the Emperor in the first trilogy didn't.
I only asked because of so much speculation on how he was related to Rey or Ren.
But okay, he's an evil force weilding alien who got over confident.

That wasn't a remark aimed at you by the way. It was aimed at people who kvetch about the film being bad because they don't know Snoke's background. There's usually only one thing that motivate characters like that and it's hunger for power and control. Depending on the structure of the First Order (and it is a military organization) he probably joined up and slowly began to climb.

[Buried Alien]

You know what I find most odd about Snoke? The Empire/First Order have always been made exclusively of humans. They have always seemed to disdain nonhuman species and we have never seen any Imperial troops or officers who are not human. Snoke...isn't quite HUMAN. He's a humanoid, to be sure, but not human as we commonly understand the characterization.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Guy1]

You know what I find most odd about Snoke? The Empire/First Order have always been made exclusively of humans. They have always seemed to disdain nonhuman species and we have never seen any Imperial troops or officers who are not human. Snoke...isn't quite HUMAN. He's a humanoid, to be sure, but not human as we commonly understand the characterization.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Well, to be fair, Force Lightning is a pretty good counterargument.

[Carabas]

You know what I find most odd about Snoke? The Empire/First Order have always been made exclusively of humans. They have always seemed to disdain nonhuman species and we have never seen any Imperial troops or officers who are not human. Snoke...isn't quite HUMAN. He's a humanoid, to be sure, but not human as we commonly understand the characterization.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

On the other hand, I find it easy to believe that a lot of the classic Empire found it hard to believe Palpatine was entirely human either, especially those who had personally seen him upclose. He certainly didn't look it with those yellow eyes.

[Master Planner]

On the other hand, I find it easy to believe that a lot of the classic Empire found it hard to believe Palpatine was entirely human either, especially those who had personally seen him upclose. He certainly didn't look it with those yellow eyes.

Well,state propaganda explained Palpatine's deformity being from an attack from Jedi Order.Of course,the inner circle of powers probably knew or had hints that Palpatine was a force user.

[Vic Vega]

This 1000x. I was there too. This film was loved. It did not have a happy ending which is why people didn't re-watch it as often. But it was absolutely loved by the fanbase and by the generals media.

FWIW, Return Of The Jedi was loved too, including the Ewoks.

There's a difference between fan backlash and critical discontent.

The way I remember, it Empire got the latter and RotJ got the former.

There were quite a few people who weren't happy with the way Jedi played out(mainly Ewok haters) and I remember the fan backlash being more towards that film.

But that was before the internets, so those people didn't have a platform to wage war on the general consensus that RotJ was a fun movie.

[Soubhagya]

Okay, having finally seen the movie (I was moving in December) I wonder what is the popular opinion about who Snoak is. I can't read through 70+ pages here to find that discussion.
I remember all sorts of theories after TFA. But in TLJ I got no more than he is a powerful Dark Lord, no revelations about his past that I caught. No connections to Ren or Rey. (other than Master/Apprentice)

Had Snoke lived people would have been interested and made more theories. But after he was killed off it pretty much killed all ideas as he immediately became unimportant to the saga. We were thinking that he was going to be the Emperor for the new trilogy. The big bad. That's how i see it.

As for who he was and where he came from i will be surprised if they don't put out a novel or something. He was an enigma and i am sure a lot of people are still interested to know about him.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I honestly don’t understand how people can’t see this. But then gain maybe I can, Since it seems as if American audiences don’t like depth or anything that is cerebral. I am not a SW fan. The only film I liked prior to this was the Phantom Menace (which Lucas tried to add some depth to).

I felt Rogue One had depth by adding moral ambiguity to the Rebels. I'm ok with depth, i just felt TLJ wasn't deep nor very entertaining. I loved Bladrunner 2049 BTW, for what it's worth

There's a difference between fan backlash and critical discontent.

The way I remember, it Empire got the latter and RotJ got the former.

There were quite a few people who weren't happy with the way Jedi played out(mainly Ewok haters) and I remember the fan backlash being more towards that film.

But that was before the internets, so those people didn't have a platform to wage war on the general consensus that RotJ was a fun movie.

Yeah i do remember people being pissed about the Ewoks, til this day even lol

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

I felt Rogue One had depth by adding moral ambiguity to the Rebels. I'm ok with depth, i just felt TLJ wasn't deep nor very entertaining. I loved Bladrunner 2049 BTW, for what it's worth

My sentiments exactly, I LOVED Rogue One, I also loved Bladeruner 2049. I didn't care for Ryan Gosling much though.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

You know what I find most odd about Snoke? The Empire/First Order have always been made exclusively of humans. They have always seemed to disdain nonhuman species and we have never seen any Imperial troops or officers who are not human. Snoke...isn't quite HUMAN. He's a humanoid, to be sure, but not human as we commonly understand the characterization.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That's just one of the many questions i had about Snoke.

[Da Boat]

My sentiments exactly, I LOVED Rogue One, I also loved Bladeruner 2049. I didn't care for Ryan Gosling much though.

Funny thing is, I feel this way with every Gosling characters in every movie he's ever been in. lol He's a good actor but I never have any connection with his characters.

[Vic Vega]

Yeah i do remember people being pissed about the Ewoks, til this day even lol

But young kids liked them.

So Lucasfilms got 2 TV movies and 2 seasons worth of cartoons out of the Ewoks, all while the hardcore fandom hated them.

In my opinion, if there had been Youtube around in '84 the "RotJ is the worst movie in the original trilogy" fan narrative would have started immediately,
instead of waiting until the video rereleases to start.

Everybody with a camera or a keyboard has a platform to vent instantly now.