STAR WARS The Last Jedi *SPOILERS!*

[Osiris-Rex]

Are the Rotten Tomatoes critics out of touch with the Rotten Tomatoes audience or is the audience out of touch with the critics? What say ye?

Justice League:
Critics 40% Audience 80%

Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Certified Fresh Critics 93% Audience 56%, tipped popcorn tub

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sta..._the_last_jedi

[ZeroBG82]

That's what I'm saying he should have been able to do the same for Ben solo who let's face was a lot more innocent than Vader was.

Well, Luke tried to do the same for Kylo. But only after a moment of hesitation, which cost him dearly.

The film tells us why Luke heistated. Confronted with a returning darkness, for just a single second Luke believes he can destroy it. It's an institutionalized fear. The Jedi fear the darkness. For just a second Luke stopped being Ben's uncle and was the guardian of the Order first. The movie even explicitly calls out Luke for being wrong in his thinking.

So you're absolutely right. But why Luke failed is the critical element. Luke's Jedi were too much the old Jedi. Luke was too much like the old Jedi. Gone were the days of his radical thinking, outside the box and away from the dogma.

The Jedi don't need to end. They need to change.

[Coal Tiger]

Are the Rotten Tomatoes critics out of touch with the Rotten Tomatoes audience or is the audience out of touch with the critics? What say ye?

Justice League:
Critics 40% Audience 80%

Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Certified Fresh Critics 93% Audience 56%, tipped popcorn tub

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sta..._the_last_jedi

Oh dear a bunch of angry fanboys are doing some review-bombing. Whatever could it mean????

[chaosfist]

That's what I'm saying he should have been able to do the same for Ben solo who let's face was a lot more innocent than Vader was.

It was more that just he sees the darkness though. Luke said he has sensed the darkness in their training and when he looked into Ben he saw that his heart had been turned by Snoke. If you listen you can hear lightsabers and blasters in the background of that scene and I think Luke saw Kylo Ren and the destruction of the New Republic unaware that he was about to do something to help set everything in motion and for a moment thought he could stop it all before realizing he had ensured it all would come to pass. Failed masters have been kind of a Star Wars thing and Luke did fail Ben in that moment but like Yoda said thats not the worst thing in the world.

[chaosfist]

Well, Luke tried to do the same for Kylo. But only after a moment of hesitation, which cost him dearly.

The film tells us why Luke heistated. Confronted with a returning darkness, for just a single second Luke believes he can destroy it. It's an institutionalized fear. The Jedi fear the darkness. For just a second Luke stopped being Ben's uncle and was the guardian of the Order first. The movie even explicitly calls out Luke for being wrong in his thinking.

So you're absolutely right. But why Luke failed is the critical element. Luke's Jedi were too much the old Jedi. Luke was too much like the old Jedi. Gone were the days of his radical thinking, outside the box and away from the dogma.

The Jedi don't need to end. They need to change.

Wow that is a much better explanation. Thank you for tying it together now that "because I was Luke Skywalker Jedi Master" makes alot more sense. He did feel obligated to destroy the coming darkness because of his Jedi beliefs which allowed for Kylo Ren to have the perfect excuse to destroy the temple etc. Well done sir.

[Sain]

Yo...this was surprisingly underwhelming. I feel like they kept repeating certain beats that we've seen before and by the end we barely moved an inch, if that, in the overall story.

Wherever Kylo and Rey stand in their third film is likely where I wanted them to have been in this film. I wanted more change and growth on both sides, but their potential was just a twitch.

Don't get it twisted, there are stunning visuals and beautiful imagery, which i gravitate to, but I expected that. I need more than just visuals. Kind of felt padded out.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

Also, how the heck can the Republic NOT notice the activities of the First Order to begin with? Money and resources going to building Starkiller bases, dreadnoughts and an entire armed fleet? They didn't see that as a cause for concern?

That bothers me too, felt like The Order had things easily handed to them in order to keep the status quo of small freedom fighters fighting a large scale army. I think the remnants of the empire would have been a better idea personally. Also what the hell is up with Rey and Finn. The latter seems to be getting strangled by the red string of Rose. Phasma and Snoke was a waste of time and space. I had to look past this siliness to really enjoythe film. But hey at least it's light years ahead of TFA which was boring as hell with a vague paper thin plot. Strangely i LOVED Rogue One despite Disney meddling and undermining the war tone of it,.

[ZeroBG82]

Also, how the heck can the Republic NOT notice the activities of the First Order to begin with? Money and resources going to building Starkiller bases, dreadnoughts and an entire armed fleet? They didn't see that as a cause for concern?

The Republic was corrupt. Somebody paid them not to notice.

Also, they were happy to look the other way because they didn't want to think about what it all might mean.

It's a parallel to pre-WW2 Europe. After 1933 everybody saw the Germans rearming and getting increasingly militant. Flexing their muscle diplomatically if not yet shooting. But after the events of the Great War nobody wanted to even think about another conflict. So they looked the other way. They ignored the growing problem. Until it was far, far too late.

[brettc1]

I don't get the complaints about Leia surviving in space. Clearly she was using The Force to pull herself back to the ship.

[Mister Mets]

Yeah but the point of the OT was the classical fantasy set up of the farm boy becoming a great warrior and him and his band of companions saving the land from evil. Right now the entire original series was at best just a small weakening of the original empire that plunged the galaxy into a longer and more complicated war that is arguably worse and more messy and the Return of the Jedi was really just Luke temporarily expelling the dark side for a few decades until Snoke showed up and then any hope of rebuilding the old Jedi Order was snuffed out and Luke became a hermit.

Before the sequels: Luke restored order to the galaxy defeating the last two Sith, becoming the next generation of the Jedi, and helping the Rebellion finally defeat the Empire.

After the sequels: The Empire just becomes the First Order. Luke tries and fails to bring the Jedi back. Two new Sith sprout up within about a decade or two.

At least with the prequels it was basically sacrificing some type of artistic freedom to put over how important the OT trilogy was and how important and predestined all those events were. Now it's like "why should I care about the Luke/Han/Leia? They were failures who didn't make a difference".

Isn't this kinda like asking why we should care about Alexander Hamilton or George Washington if the United States was eventually going to have a Civil War?

[Hiromi]

Oh dear a bunch of angry fanboys are doing some review-bombing. Whatever could it mean????

I'm interested if anyone thinks that 70,000 actual people actually took the time to register and rate something on Rotten Tomatoes that's been out for a bit over 24 hours

the audience score is useless, it's useless on basically any of the review sites, it's in no way whatsoever even close to an actual usable poll

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I felt Finn was better utilized in TFA (And i was underwhelmed by that movie), i'm trying to figure out if Finn and Rey are platonic cause writers got cold feet about shipping them?, or is they planning on a disastrous relationship with her and Keylo??? I really don't understand where they're going with that relationship clusterfuck. And my fears was realized when i saw Phasma, Chewbacca and Finn being in throwaway scenes (reviewers was warning people that they did nothing, and was kinda wasted). The fight scene with Rey & Keylo vs the red-guards was awesome. Ackbar got screwed over, like wow! that's how he dies?? I was more upset over that then Luke dying honestly...ugh. I think of all the new films i still prefer Rogue One. The Last Jedi is a great space-opera action adventure film. But in terms of lore and set up??...NOPE it's just not working for me.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

I don't get the complaints about Leia surviving in space. Clearly she was using The Force to pull herself back to the ship.

That didn't bother me really

[Jokerz79]

Ok story IMO on a technical level pretty flawless and looked gorgeous. But overall found it disappointing. If I rated the Star Wars films it goes for me.

1: Empire Strikes Back.

2: A New Hope.

3: Return of the Jedi.

4: Force Awakens (While a rehashing I found the characters and film fun).

5: Rogue One (I think the story is better than Force Awakens but I found the characters in Force Awakens more enjoyable.).

6: Revenge of the Sith.

7: The Last Jedi (While a better picture visually than Revenge of the Sith IMO I didn't find Revenge of the Sith as disappointing story wise.).

8: Phantom Menace (Yeah I know JarJar but it also had Darth Maul).

9: Attack of the Clones (This films just has so many things that didn't make any sense logically it gave me a head ache will always be one of my least liked films of all time not just Star Wars.).

[skyvolt2000]

Oh dear a bunch of angry fanboys are doing some review-bombing. Whatever could it mean????

Wait till Black Panther comes out. You will see some true bombing.