Star Wars The Last Jedi *SPOILERS*

[David Walton]

Part me thinks that they showed her eye because she's gonna come back as a cyborg.

It's certainly possible! At the very least, it's a cool visual and some great acting to convey that much through one eye.

[Carabas]

Exactly. The fact that people would accept “Skywalker Blood” or a similar lineage as explanation just seems silly. As if every Force user has such a lineage.

“Why is Yoda so strong in the Force? What’s the explanation? If only we knew who his parents were, we’d have an idea.”




Or maybe he sensed that one day this kid woukd kill his best friend, so he thought about it for a minute. That would actually fit your “Luke can only be flawed when it comes to protecting his friends” requirement.

I think that fans tend to view these characters in absolute terms that simply shouldn't apply. “Luke would never even THINK of doing such a thing...” Sure he would. Anyone in that situation would at least consider both options. And even Luke can have a monent of weakness. Why can’t he? He was never portrayed as being perfect in the original films. Why do fans insist on holding him to some imagined standard?

Yeah, people seem to forget that Luke was not a pacifist, and seeing the light in Vader or not, he still almost killed him in a seething rage at the end of Return Of The Jedi.

[Jabare]

no Phasma is dead. She's not coming back from that

[TheInvisibleMan]

no Phasma is dead. She's not coming back from that

eeeh she might be ok

[Jabare]

eeeh she might be ok

no. no no no no no no no




she might be a charged corpse

[BeastieRunner]

eeeh she might be ok

Falling into fire and explosions!?



'Tis but a scratch!

no. no no no no no no no

Granted he was strong in the Force but it could happen:

[brettc1]

really now?

he saw what Vader did to the galaxy and knew how powerful Vader was

he saw that in Ben, and had a moment of weakness

I thought each side of that particular scene was amazing in showing context

Ren tells it as Luke was dead set on killing him
Luke tells it as he was trying to spare the galaxy the pain of another Vader

Luke felt it was HIS responsibility to do something about it

I admit I am a bit ambivalent. Luke goes to extremes to redeem a man who has already killed thousands, but is willing to contemplate executing a person who hasn't done anything yet and his nephew to boot?

The idea is reasonable, it just doesn't fit Luke Skywalker. He tried to turn Darth Vader AFTER he'd already killed countless souls and caused irreversible damage. Why would he feel like Kylo was irredeemable BEFORE he'd done anything?? Luke's experience has taught him it's never too late.

Luke's defining moment in the OT is that he sees what Yoda and Obi-Wan can't, because they're too tainted by their fear of Vader.

More like their old school Jedi Dogma, but yes.

[TheInvisibleMan]

I go by the "soap opera rule" when it comes to TV + movie death

No body, no problem

unless you go out like a G, like Jenny Shepherd in NCIS

[Jabare]

Phasma is the Boba Fett of the new films

whats the point of bringing her back given what we've seen of her so far? At this point its she did more to further Finn's arcs and growth than anything else. I know everyone loves the actress because she's an amazing character on Game of Thrones, but at this point do they need to bring Phasma back?

I mean Finn's basically killed her twice over.

[Sacred Knight]

--I was a little disappointed that we didn't get a single lightsaber on lightsaber confrontation. But all the other action stuff was the best it's ever been.

This actually vexes me more than anything else (and not that much vexes me, the more I chew on things). But you gotta have this man, some staples you don't drop.

[David Walton]

More like their old school Jedi Dogma, but yes.

I think Obi-Wan and Yoda are terrified that Vader is going to win and all their sacrifices will have been for nothing. They see Luke's desire to turn him as handing Vader the universe on a silver platter.

Speaking of Jedi dogma, I find it really odd that no one's pointed out yet that training children in the ways of the Force might not be the best idea. I thought they were making that comparison when it was revealed the First Order steals children to indoctrinate, but they've never brought it up again.

[Soubhagya]

Thanks. Nice talking with you as well.

Absolutely! And just to clear, even though I don't like the developments with Luke's backstory (and their decision to kill him off), I do enjoy the film. I like where Luke's head is at by the end of the film.

I agree that Kylo and Vader are two different cases. If Vader had truly been irredeemable in ROTJ, I think Luke would have sensed it, and done what needed to be done.

I actually thought it was implied in FA that Luke had been actively avoiding a confrontation with Kylo because he couldn't bring himself to fight his former pupil. So I thought the trajectory was going to be a reversal of ROTJ--bad things happened because Luke wouldn't kill Kylo. But I pictured an older Kylo already working for the First Order, not a teenager still in Luke's care. I really liked that at the end Luke knew Kylo couldn't be turned, but he wasn't acting out of malice toward him. Resisting him was just something that had to be done for the greater good.

I get that, I just feel strongly that Luke is far too compassionate to ever contemplate murdering one of his own pupils, even for a moment. His weaknesses lie elsewhere.

In my head canon, I picture a scenario where Snoke projects an image of an enemy about to strike Ben, and then Ben mistakes his intentions. You'd still get Luke to a place where he felt ashamed of his actions (acting rashly and not comprehending Snoke's trickery), but without the whole I'm thinking murder the kid for a split second.

But I also envisioned that when Ben turned and attacked Luke's students, he couldn't bring himself to unleash on his former pupil, and thus felt like he'd participated in the rise of the First Order.

I think him contemplating to kill Kylo is compassionate too. He could sense that darkness and knew he would bring so much suffering. He had turned already. Its not exactly wrong that he thought about that. As i mentioned killing Hitler in Art School. It was a really difficult situation he found himself in. Ben was his own nephew too.

But if you think its less compassionate then i won't try to change your mind. I can see your opinion and respect that. It did not bother me but if it did to you its cool. No problem.

[Soubhagya]

Phasma is the Boba Fett of the new films

whats the point of bringing her back given what we've seen of her so far? At this point its she did more to further Finn's arcs and growth than anything else. I know everyone loves the actress because she's an amazing character on Game of Thrones, but at this point do they need to bring Phasma back?

I mean Finn's basically killed her twice over.

You mean Bobba Fett in ROTJ. In Empire Strikes Back Bobba Fett did something important. He tracked Han Solo and was instrumental in their capture. He also took Han to Jabba. So, he had an important role there. But in ROTJ all he did was die like a chump. Phasma has done literally nothing in two films.

Her death is better because she is so useless. I think there's a slight possibility that she could return. But its really slight.

[stillanerd]

My initial thoughts after I walked out of The Last Jedi was essentially that I knew it was a very good movie, but you couldn't help think, "Did I just see the entire Star Wars saga and fanbase get trolled?" Anyways, wrote a mini-review, along with how it ranks alongside the other Star Wars films. Also, I can totally understand why some folks really didn't like the film, too.

Star Wars movie ranking after The Last Jedi

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, with regards to what this movie says about the Jedi, the Sith, The Force, etc. Here's how big of a nerd I am--I don't think I've ever seen a mainstream Star Wars that was so subversive about it's own mythology than Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II - The Sith Lords. The fact that it's Luke Skywalker of all people who undermines the mystique makes it even more so. If you think about it, Luke kind of reaches a similar conclusion regarding the Jedi and Sith that Kriea does in that video game. The only difference is he accepts that the Force than any one Jedi or Sith, and that it's folly to try and but yourself on it's level.

Actually, Kylo Ren kind of adopted Kriea's viewpoint, now that I think about it.

[brettc1]

I think Obi-Wan and Yoda are terrified that Vader is going to win and all their sacrifices will have been for nothing. They see Luke's desire to turn him as handing Vader the universe on a silver platter.

Speaking of Jedi dogma, I find it really odd that no one's pointed out yet that training children in the ways of the Force might not be the best idea. I thought they were making that comparison when it was revealed the First Order steals children to indoctrinate, but they've never brought it up again.

Very good point about the FO practice of churning out stormies.

But no, Jedi don't give in to fear like that. Which is why Luke's retreat to Ach-To is so baffling. If, as was stated in the TFA scroll, it was to seek out the first Jedi temple and learn its secrets it makes sense. But if, like in this movie, it was to just go sulk, then there seems little point. You can sulk anywhere - why go to the birthplace of the Jedi? Make's no sense and make me think that when Abrams was getting the first one done there was a different plan in mind.

And need it be pointed out that Kenobi and Yoda lost thousands of friends and younglings in Order 66, and did not end up broken cynical old farts like Luke at the opening of TFA. Kenobi even took personal responsiblity for failing Anakin. Is Luke Skywalker really that much less resilient?