Star Wars The Last Jedi *SPOILERS*

[Buried Alien]

Point of ambiguity: when Luke discussed Ben Solo's past with Rey, he remarked that "Han was Han" in response to the idea of Luke training Ben in the ways of the Jedi.

I'm not exactly clear on what Han's opinion was on that: did he enthusiastically embrace the idea? Reluctantly agree with reservations? Vehemently object to it? Not give a damn either way?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[godisawesome]

Point of ambiguity: when Luke discussed Ben Solo's past with Rey, he remarked that "Han was Han" in response to the idea of Luke training Ben in the ways of the Jedi.

I'm not exactly clear on what Han's opinion was on that: did he enthusiastically embrace the idea? Reluctantly agree with reservations? Vehemently object to it? Not give a damn either way?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think it should be taken as an ambiguous statement; from what we've seen, Kylo's relationships with both parents can't be qualified as totally negative, in spite of the fact that it clearly wasn't great. I'm willing to bet that Han probably grudgingly accepted the decision, but was probably taking it as a bit of an insult towards his and Leia's parenting while simulataneously recognizing something needed to be done, and was of course probably struck by some emotional turmoil from Ben likely being hurt by the decision.

[the nomad]

Point of ambiguity: when Luke discussed Ben Solo's past with Rey, he remarked that "Han was Han" in response to the idea of Luke training Ben in the ways of the Jedi.

I'm not exactly clear on what Han's opinion was on that: did he enthusiastically embrace the idea? Reluctantly agree with reservations? Vehemently object to it? Not give a damn either way?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Han probably said something like this.......



I imagine it being something like that, until Leia and Luke probably pestered him until he agreed. Or maybe just Leia just made the decision unilaterally and didn't give a damn about what he thought.

[Buried Alien]

Han probably said something like this.......



I imagine it being something like that, until Leia and Luke probably pestered him until he agreed. Or maybe just Leia just made the decision unilaterally and didn't give a damn about what he thought.

That was EPISODE IV Han, but his views evolved quite a bit through the Original Trilogy and he had an entirely different viewpoint on the Force by the time of THE FORCE AWAKENS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Darkseid Is]

That was EPISODE IV Han, but his views evolved quite a bit through the Original Trilogy and he had an entirely different viewpoint on the Force by the time of THE FORCE AWAKENS.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

But the Yoda we got in this new movie is weird comedy Yoda from before Luke realizes he's a master. So I guess it's all bullshit.

What I mean is... I'm afraid they'll give us saturday morning cartoon characterizations instead of quality but I'm also drunk right now...

[Punisher007]

Han probably said something like this.......



I imagine it being something like that, until Leia and Luke probably pestered him until he agreed. Or maybe just Leia just made the decision unilaterally and didn't give a damn about what he thought.

Which doesn't line up AT ALL with what Han told Rey and Finn in TFA. He 100% acknowledge that The Force/The Jedi/Etc were real. And in the very same room where he'd denied that fact in ANH no less (I see what you did there JJ, well-played).

[Vic Vega]

Point of ambiguity: when Luke discussed Ben Solo's past with Rey, he remarked that "Han was Han" in response to the idea of Luke training Ben in the ways of the Jedi.

I'm not exactly clear on what Han's opinion was on that: did he enthusiastically embrace the idea? Reluctantly agree with reservations? Vehemently object to it? Not give a damn either way?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I'm gonna go with: reluctantly agree with (vocal) reservations.

I'm sure the worldly Han Solo wasn't thrilled with the idea of his son being cooped up in some temple even one run by his Brother in Law and buddy.

By the end of RotJ he'd of seen both Vader, Luke and Leia use The Force, so his belief in it wasn't the issue, it likely was everything else about it.

[DrNewGod]

Point of ambiguity: when Luke discussed Ben Solo's past with Rey, he remarked that "Han was Han" in response to the idea of Luke training Ben in the ways of the Jedi.

I'm not exactly clear on what Han's opinion was on that: did he enthusiastically embrace the idea? Reluctantly agree with reservations? Vehemently object to it? Not give a damn either way?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Really too many possibilities to answer that.

• Did Luke pursue the old Jedi tenant that Jedi must separate themselves from passions? Han could easily have seen that as robbing his son of full and rich life.
• Did Han see using the force as too risky a venture, likely to make a young adept become or attract trouble like the Sith? He might not have wanted his son to have that kind of life.
• Was Han trying to make a life as a legit merchant pilot before "going back to the only thing [he] was ever good at?" He might have hoped to see The Millennium Falcon become "Solo and Son."

[hawkeyefan]

But the Yoda we got in this new movie is weird comedy Yoda from before Luke realizes he's a master. So I guess it's all bullshit.

What I mean is... I'm afraid they'll give us saturday morning cartoon characterizations instead of quality but I'm also drunk right now...

Really? I thought this was a return to form for Yoda. I mean, they used the puppet rather than CGI, for starters. But aside feom that, he had like 3 or 4 really steong lines, on par with “do or do not, there is no try”.

But then again, I guess I consider Star Wars along the lines of Saturday morning cartoons, so perhaps that helps.

[Buried Alien]

Really? I thought this was a return to form for Yoda. I mean, they used the puppet rather than CGI, for starters. But aside feom that, he had like 3 or 4 really steong lines, on par with “do or do not, there is no try”.

But then again, I guess I consider Star Wars along the lines of Saturday morning cartoons, so perhaps that helps.

I got a lot of my personal ethics from Saturday morning cartoons in the 1970s and early 1980s.

Yoda returned to give Luke that one critical bit of wisdom that Luke was still lacking: failure too is a valuable lesson. I think Luke was under the mistaken impression that as the heir to the Jedi legacy, he was to be flawless, but that proved to be Luke's *actual* vanity and hubris (that he overlooked). Wise and powerful as he had become as a Jedi, he was nevertheless human and thus, subject to flaws and limitations. Yoda himself once failed (and lost the old Jedi Order and the Republic), as did Obi-Wan (lost Anakin to the Dark Side), so Luke's big "failure," so to speak, was not recognizing that he was not an exception. He too could and would fail, but what mattered was what he would learn from it and how he would respond to it. He was on the wrong path until Yoda showed up, but Yoda (as was sort of his function late in his physical life) set Luke straight...as always.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[hawkeyefan]

I got a lot of my personal ethics from Saturday morning cartoons in the 1970s and early 1980s.

Yoda returned to give Luke that one critical bit of wisdom that Luke was still lacking: failure too is a valuable lesson. I think Luke was under the mistaken impression that as the heir to the Jedi legacy, he was to be flawless, but that proved to be Luke's *actual* vanity and hubris (that he overlooked). Wise and powerful as he had become as a Jedi, he was nevertheless human and thus, subject to flaws and limitations. Yoda himself once failed (and lost the old Jedi Order and the Republic), as did Obi-Wan (lost Anakin to the Dark Side), so Luke's big "failure," so to speak, was not recognizing that he was not an exception. He too could and would fail, but what mattered was what he would learn from it and how he would respond to it. He was on the wrong path until Yoda showed up, but Yoda (as was sort of his function late in his physical life) set Luke straight...as always.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yup...that about sums it up. “Our greatest teacher failure is.”

I think Luke’s failure also applies to a lot of the fans who cannot accept this rendition of him. They too are buying into the perfect Jedi Master with magic Skywalker blood.

[Punisher007]

No, it was that it wasn't an interesting lesson nor did it make for a good viewing experience for some. And no, they DIDN'T expect Luke to be "flawless." That's a strawman that needs to go away now. They expected him to have actually accomplished something, to be written in character, and to have his arc respected. None of which happens here.

Again, we're going in a 30+ year circle here, this entire movie can be summed up as "Rian Johnson doing stuff that we've already seen before and telling us things that we already know, but then pretending like they're oh so new and clever." The idea that you learn from failure, is a well-established tenant in SW. Heck ESB already had that as a big thing and that was 37 years ago." We know this already and Luke knows this already. The idea that he needs Yoda to come in and tell him this just shows how his character hasn't progressed. He's regressed so that they can get him back to where he should have been in the first place. And it was SO BORING to watch.

So thank you Yoda, you're meaningless platitude about a long-since established idea was totally worth destroying the legacy of the OT heroes and leaving them with nothing, and making your new character look like clueless idiots as well. Oh wait, no it wasn't.

[Buried Alien]

I think that after RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke acquired a sense of self-satisfaction that had also become the Achilles Heel of the old Jedi Order. He had reason to: he had defeated Darth Sidious and redeemed Anakin Skywalker, playing a critical role in the final victory of the Rebellion over the Empire. Having accomplished that, he had adequate reason to believe that he had attained sufficient mastery of the Force (and life's wisdom in general) to begin teaching the Force to others. The truth was, however, that he wasn't. Luke was still very young at the time of RETURN OF THE JEDI, and in spite of his accomplishments, there was so much he hadn't learned and didn't fully comprehend. It wasn't that surprising, therefore, that his attempt to start a new Jedi Order went up in flames...especially with Snoke out there throwing a spanner into the works with Ben Solo.

Query: now that Snoke is apparently dead (though who knows...Darth Maul somehow survived the exact same injury), will we *ever* find out where he came from?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[KOSLOX]

I think that after RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke acquired a sense of self-satisfaction that had also become the Achilles Heel of the old Jedi Order. He had reason to: he had defeated Darth Sidious and redeemed Anakin Skywalker, playing a critical role in the final victory of the Rebellion over the Empire. Having accomplished that, he had adequate reason to believe that he had attained sufficient mastery of the Force (and life's wisdom in general) to begin teaching the Force to others. The truth was, however, that he wasn't. Luke was still very young at the time of RETURN OF THE JEDI, and in spite of his accomplishments, there was so much he hadn't learned and didn't fully comprehend. It wasn't that surprising, therefore, that his attempt to start a new Jedi Order went up in flames...especially with Snoke out there throwing a spanner into the works with Ben Solo.

Query: now that Snoke is apparently dead (though who knows...Darth Maul somehow survived the exact same injury), will we *ever* find out where he came from?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Sure. Coming soon to a digital bookstore, or comic shop. Same way we've always found out about Star Wars b-list characters.

[Sacred Knight]

It really doesn't work at all but I had the funny thought on Christmas: what if they pull a Ra's al Ghul and this guy wasn't really Snoke at all? Haha.