Star Wars The Last Jedi *SPOILERS*

[WebLurker]

TLJ is one of those movies that I have a hard time understanding the negative reaction to. I found it to be one of the better movies. However, ignoring the bigots who're angry with the movie's commitment to it's non-white/male characters, most of it seems to stem from disagreeing with where the story chose to go and its answers to some of the questions TFA set up. Fair enough for those who do have that assessment.

[choptop]

the First Order is even worse than the Empire.

How are they worse then the empire?

[KurtW95]

How are they worse then the empire?

The whole idea of Starkiller Base was that it was the Death Star, but worse. Rather than destroying planets, it was significantly bigger and could destroy a whole star system. They're supposed to be the Empire on steroids.

[choptop]

The whole idea of Starkiller Base was that it was the Death Star, but worse. Rather than destroying planets, it was significantly bigger and could destroy a whole star system. They're supposed to be the Empire on steroids.

Ya they had a super death star but besides that they don't even have full control over like the empire had they don't even have a fraction of the manpower or wepons they had do they?

[Carabas]

Most of the controversy stems from the beliefs that Luke's situation and characterization were botched and he was needlessly killed, force projecting being a thing, Rey being a nobody was a letdown, light speed ramming makes no sense, Yoda burning books because Rey knows everything was idiotic, the Finn/Rose subplot was pointless, SuperLeia was stupid, Holdo was annoying, and Rose preventing Finn's sacrifice (that would have save a lot of people) was moronic.

What movie were you watching? Yoda didn't burn any books, the Finn/Rose subplot was full of point, characterisation was awesome if incompatible with Luke The Superhero from the old EU, SuperLeia was not super, she just used some minor TK...
And Rey isn't a nobody, she just isn't magical space royalty, which is the point.

[Gorthon616]

I think there's enough to judge unless everything thus far has been a dream. And I think they were absolutely capable of letting the new characters shine without sidelining or trashing the older ones. Just look at Cobra Kai. They did it great.

And as far as making the new characters shine, I don't think they do a particularly good job. The best of them would be Kylo who rises to a middling "okay, I guess."

Ya they had a super death star but besides that they don't even have full control over like the empire had they don't even have a fraction of the manpower or wepons they had do they?

Who knows. I don't think the movie really knows/cares about that kind of thing. I'm sure it's all poorly explained in some light novel that no one involved with making the movie wrote though.

[KurtW95]

What movie were you watching? Yoda didn't burn any books, the Finn/Rose subplot was full of point, characterisation was awesome if incompatible with Luke The Superhero from the old EU, SuperLeia was not super, she just used some minor TK...
And Rey isn't a nobody, she just isn't magical space royalty, which is the point.

A) "THE SACRED JEDI TEXTS!" Need I say more?
B) letting the fathiers go so they die or get caught again again just because it feels good
C) going from not giving up of Darth frickin' Vader to attempting to kill your young nephew in his sleep, plus generally giving up on everything and becoming a cynical hermit
D) It was just laughably stupid
E) she is a nobody if she's not related to any big established character like nearly everyone thought she would be

[Carabas]

A) "THE SACRED JEDI TEXTS!" Need I say more?

Yes. They're on the Millennium Falcon. Rey nicked them before she left. When Yoda said Rey already possessed the knowledge, he was being very literal.

B) letting the fathiers go so they die or get caught again again just because it feels good

The point is Finn's character arc. And why would they die?

C) going from not giving up of Darth frickin' Vader to attempting to kill your young nephew in his sleep, plus generally giving up on everything and becoming a cynical hermit

I don't see the issue. People change over 30+ years.

D) It was just laughably stupid

That's your 100% subjective opinion.

E) she is a nobody if she's not related to any big established character like nearly everyone thought she would be

No, that does not make her a nobody.

[TheFerg714]

The point is Finn's character arc.

Which was crap. He didn't learn anything that he hadn't learned in the previous movie. His whole "arc" just consisted of other characters (mainly Rose) telling him about the themes of the movie.

I don't see the issue. People change over 30+ years.

Luke is supposed to be a superhero. Did you miss Return of the Jedi? Did you miss his entire story arc throughout the original trilogy? It's a huge step back to make Luke a hermit that refuses to try.
Similarly, they could have done anything with Han's character. Sure, I can see Han dumping Leia and returning to a life of smuggling, but Disney didn't have to go that way. They chose to make these iconic characters (that nearly everyone in the world has grown up with) ugly, deformed shells of their former selves.

That's your 100% subjective opinion.

Yea, but he's hardly the only person espousing that idea.

No, that does not make her a nobody.

Yes it does, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It was stupid for Rian Johnson to subvert everything he could have possibly subverted, but I actually like that Rey didn't have ties to to other established characters.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

I don't see the issue. People change over 30+ years.

I'm just going to address this issue because it's one of the main problems I have with the movie. Yes people change don't change that drastically without good reason. So the 30 years for me just doesn't cut it for a good explanation. The fact that his instinct reaction is to kill him doesn't work. Especially when he was willing to give a proven mass murderer an chance to redeem himself.

[Carabas]

I'm just going to address this issue because it's one of the main problems I have with the movie. Yes people change don't change that drastically without good reason. So the 30 years for me just doesn't cut it for a good explanation. The fact that his instinct reaction is to kill him doesn't work. Especially when he was willing to give a proven mass murderer an chance to redeem himself.

A 20-ish year old half-baked and in many ways very naive Jedi might be willing to give his dad the benefit of the doubt, but that same guy as a 50 year old Jedi Master might be a lot less willing to roll the dice with a Darksider who is friends with neo-Palpatine.

And, you know, if his instinct really was to kill then Ben would be dead. The film does hammer very hard on it being just a moment of doubt.

[SpiderClops]

I think for some people it's less of the movie being about the old characters and more of it feels like the movie is telling them they suck and we suck for liking told stuff. Not exactly the kind of message people who were fans of the OT would want. IMO the old should be able to coexist with the new. Having to tear down one to build up the other is only ever going to build ire.

If you want to believe the words of the villain as the message of the movie, then sure.

[Amadeus Arkham]

TLJ is one of those movies that I have a hard time understanding the negative reaction to. I found it to be one of the better movies. However, ignoring the bigots who're angry with the movie's commitment to it's non-white/male characters, most of it seems to stem from disagreeing with where the story chose to go and its answers to some of the questions TFA set up. Fair enough for those who do have that assessment.

A lot fans seem to dislike it partly because the movie didn't give them a Luke who was KEWL! BADASS JEDI WHO'S POWERFUL ENOUGH TO LIFT ENTIRE MOUNTAINS!" that they had imagine a post-Jedi version being.

[Anthony W]

They all did a good job with what they had.

Ha ha ha ha...

[Darrin Kelley]

Ha ha ha ha...

I don't blame the actors for bad writing. I blame the writers.

There are places in The Last jedi I certainly believe could have been written better. And i did not like the director's attitude that they were going to enter into the project to be deliberately subvert the property.

The director should have been replaced very early on in the project. As he showed that he was utterly incapable of handling the property respectfully.

These failures with The Last Jedi come down to Disney's lack of proper oversight of an untested writer and director.