Star Wars The Last Jedi *SPOILERS*

[Alan2099]

I had no problem with Luke.

This is an guy who was constantly being told by everyone that he was the big hero. he was the savior. It was his destiny to be great. Then, when they needed him the most in a single moment of doubt he messed up and it all came crashing down. He made a mistake and it broke him. he pushes his sister and his best friends' kid down a path of darkness.

I can easily understand why he'd become a cynical hermit after that.

His comeback at the end though, that was completely badass. I wish we would have gotten a little bit ore of that, but I can't complain too much.

[SpiderClops]

A lot fans seem to dislike it partly because the movie didn't give them a Luke who was KEWL! BADASS JEDI WHO'S POWERFUL ENOUGH TO LIFT ENTIRE MOUNTAINS!" that they had imagine a post-Jedi version being.

Instead they gave us the "KEWL! BADASS JEDI WHO'S POWERFUL ENOUGH TO FORCE PROJECT HIMSELF BILLIONS OF MILES AWAY SO GOOD THAT NOBODY NOTICES IT!".

[Anthony W]

I don't blame the actors for bad writing. I blame the writers.

No one is blaming the actors, it's just that you blamed the writers in such a funny casual way.

[Zero Hunter]

I just thought it was a poorly written movie. It had nothing to do with "well it is just not what you expected" excuse fans of the movie use to dismiss any criticism of the film. No. I just think it was a bad story period. Meandering plots that went no where. Humor that would be out of place in a everything but a dumb Cartoon Network kids show. Villains reduced to bad cartoon characters. And plot holes galore.

The biggest sin is outside of a couple really cool moments the movie was just boring, and if their is one thing a Star Wars movie should never be it is boring.

[ChrisIII]

Vader and Kylo are somewhat different I think in their reasons for the fall, although we don't quite have the whole story yet. I think it's heavily implied that Kylo felt abandoned by his parents by giving him to Luke, and that perhaps he had some anti-social problems since then. As Han and Leia's conversation in TFA hints that they had trouble getting through to him and went to Luke for help ("If Luke couldn't help him how could I?"). Anakin was kind of the inverse, he was forced to abandon his own parent, and terrified of losing his new family. Maybe Kylo was actually a bit darker than Vader in some ways? Although he did hesitate with killing Leia.

(The novel Bloodline might have a clue-we learn that Leia and Han never told Ben about his grandfather, until it got outed all over the galaxy, leading to the end of Leia's political career-so that probably led to some abandonement/trust issues).

[WebLurker]

If you want to believe the words of the villain as the message of the movie, then sure.

I think that Kylo is taking the wrong message from the lesson, so to speak. I think that TLJ's main theme is about being able to move forward into the future not restrained by the mistakes of the past, but still carrying forward the good of the past. Case in point, Luke starts the movie convinced the Jedi Order has to end because of how they have failed. Yoda has to shown him that his mistake was not learning from those failures and using them to create a better future for the Order. Rey's lesson is coming to acceptance of her past and not letting it define her.

So, I don't think it was really that it was "you shouldn't like or appreciate anything that came before; only the villain makes that statement and we're outright told that he's wrong to think so.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

A 20-ish year old half-baked and in many ways very naive Jedi might be willing to give his dad the benefit of the doubt, but that same guy as a 50 year old Jedi Master might be a lot less willing to roll the dice with a Darksider who is friends with neo-Palpatine.

And, you know, if his instinct really was to kill then Ben would be dead. The film does hammer very hard on it being just a moment of doubt.

Luke himself said his instinct reaction was to ignite his lightsaber. I can't imagine why else he ignite it over someone that's asleep if not to use it. The big problem for me is I never get any sense that Kylo is anywhere near as bad as Vader was. As far as we know Ben hadn't even done anything remotely darkside yet.

If you want to believe the words of the villain as the message of the movie, then sure.

I don't think it was the intention of it to be the message but actions speak much louder than words and the deconstruction is much stronger than any of the reconstructions IMO.

[Carabas]

Luke himself said his instinct reaction was to ignite his lightsaber. I can't imagine why else he ignite it over someone that's asleep if not to use it. The big problem for me is I never get any sense that Kylo is anywhere near as bad as Vader was. As far as we know Ben hadn't even done anything remotely darkside yet.

He does kill everybody there who won't go Dark Side...

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

He does kill everybody there who won't go Dark Side...

It's possible but it's also possible the other students jumped to conclusions like Luke did. Not saying it wasn't because they wouldn't go darkside but right now it's a lot of he said she said.

[Gorthon616]

He does kill everybody there who won't go Dark Side...

Isn't that after Luke creepily stood over him while he was sleeping with his lightsaber drawn? It seems bizarre to think that Luke would have been the only one on board with killing Kylo since he was the Master of the Temple and all. It's not like they're would've been anyone above him to force him to do it. Likewise, I'm sure his students would have followed suite and wanted him dead as well.

Not that that justifies anything, but he's not the one who was shown in the movie arbitrarily choosing who live or dies during the flashback scene

[Moon Ronin]

Instead they gave us the "KEWL! BADASS JEDI WHO'S POWERFUL ENOUGH TO FORCE PROJECT HIMSELF BILLIONS OF MILES AWAY SO GOOD THAT NOBODY NOTICES IT!".

You mean like Snoke linked two minds billions of miles apart with out them knowing it was him. It so good that Rey shot a hole in here stone room thing because she thought it was real. By the time Luke did it it was an old hat trick.

[ClanAskani]

You mean like Snoke linked two minds billions of miles apart with out them knowing it was him. It so good that Rey shot a hole in here stone room thing because she thought it was real. By the time Luke did it it was an old hat trick.

Yet Snoke was so incompetent he let Kylo kill him. It's one thing if Snoke is set up as the big bad who is unstoppable, but then it's lazy writing to kill him off he's insignificant.

Kylo's line that the effort would kill Luke to do what he did has no weight since we already have seen Snoke manipulate Kylo's mind. Why does Luke even need project himself? Why not do a Force DM and antagonize Kylo?

It seems like Rian was forcing the idea that Luke does something to sacrifice himself to save the Resistance/Rebellion. But it doesn't work because of all the stupid events that had to happen to make that group the last of the Resistance and how moronic the First Order behaves. You have to believe that there's no other Resistance out there, the First Order somehow destroyed all of the New Republic and this small group surviving actually makes a difference. None of that makes any sense.

Luke could have committed suicide on his island, Rey landed behind the old Rebel base in the Falcon, Poe suddenly discovered leadership abilities of following wild animals to find an exit and they flew off and it would be the same result. The First Order are depicted as being so ridiculously incompanant that Luke really didn't need to do anything.

Luke sacrificing himself would be fine - the problem was the utter stupidity of why. If Finn and Rose simply parked correctly none of that would have happened. If Holdo told Poe the plan, none of that would have happened. It's infuriating that Luke dies because the other characters are utter morons.

[ClanAskani]

You mean like Snoke linked two minds billions of miles apart with out them knowing it was him. It so good that Rey shot a hole in here stone room thing because she thought it was real. By the time Luke did it it was an old hat trick.

Yet Snoke was so incompetent he let Kylo kill him. It's one thing if Snoke is set up as the big bad who is unstoppable, but then it's lazy writing to kill him off he's insignificant.

Kylo's line that the effort would kill Luke to do what he did has no weight since we already have seen Snoke manipulate Kylo's mind. Why does Luke even need project himself? Why not do a Force DM and antagonize Kylo?

It seems like Rian was forcing the idea that Luke does something to sacrifice himself to save the Resistance/Rebellion. But it doesn't work because of all the stupid events that had to happen to make that group the last of the Resistance and how moronic the First Order behaves. You have to believe that there's no other Resistance out there, the First Order somehow destroyed all of the New Republic and this small group surviving actually makes a difference. None of that makes any sense.

Luke could have committed suicide on his island, Rey landed behind the old Rebel base in the Falcon, Poe suddenly discovered leadership abilities of following wild animals to find an exit and they flew off and it would be the same result. The First Order are depicted as being so ridiculously incompetent that Luke really didn't need to do anything. Literally they could all just left and the Kylo and Hux could shake their fist and act like Elmer Fudd trying to catch Bugs Bunny.

Luke sacrificing himself would be fine - the problem was the utter stupidity of why. If Finn and Rose simply parked correctly none of that would have happened. If Holdo told Poe the plan, none of that would have happened. It's infuriating that Luke dies because the other characters are utter morons.

[Vegeta]

He does kill everybody there who won't go Dark Side...

Yeah, that was after Luke "attacked" him in his sleep. At that point it isn't specified whether Ben had committed any atrocities yet, just that Snoke had began to corrupt him.

[Serpico Jones]

I enjoyed all of the scenes with Luke, Rey and Ren. It was everything else that bored me to tears. Finn and Poe Dameron are not compelling characters.