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  1. #31
    All-New Member We R. Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Kylo would have been killed by one of Snoke's underlings in the throne room if Rey hadn't tossed him her lightsaber.

    It's bad enough that this dude lost his first fight but now he needs to be saved from underlings?
    Who cares? Why does a villain have to be some all powerful invincible being that wins all his fights? That's very boring, and it wouldn't have made for a very good moment, when Rey threw him the Lightsaber. That was sick.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by We R. Venom View Post
    Who cares? Why does a villain have to be some all powerful invincible being that wins all his fights? That's very boring, and it wouldn't have made for a very good moment, when Rey threw him the Lightsaber. That was sick.
    Because it makes it more satisfying when the hero triumphs. TLJ has characters say that Kylo is getting stronger but we never see it. Rey on the other hand is shown getting stronger, so much so that I have zero anticipation for their next fight to take place because I know that Rey will curbstomp Kylo. I knew Luke was going to beat Vader but I was still worried.

  3. #33
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Because it makes it more satisfying when the hero triumphs. TLJ has characters say that Kylo is getting stronger but we never see it. Rey on the other hand is shown getting stronger, so much so that I have zero anticipation for their next fight to take place because I know that Rey will curbstomp Kylo. I knew Luke was going to beat Vader but I was still worried.
    He ripped up the Resistance fleet something hard.

    Kylo took out 4-5 of those guards while Rey struggled with 1-2.

    He tricked Snoke, his master.

    He hurt Luke so bad, Kylo thought he was dead.

    That's 4 big feats in the this movie alone.

    On the flip side, since they're playing up the ying-yang of the Force, maybe Kylo's thing has always been using more people to help (the Knights) get things done. And since Rey is now singular, Kylo's gonna see that folly. But I think that's a bad theme (friends make you weak).
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    He ripped up the Resistance fleet something hard.

    Kylo took out 4-5 of those guards while Rey struggled with 1-2.

    He tricked Snoke, his master.

    He hurt Luke so bad, Kylo thought he was dead.

    That's 4 big feats in the this movie alone.

    On the flip side, since they're playing up the ying-yang of the Force, maybe Kylo's thing has always been using more people to help (the Knights) get things done. And since Rey is now singular, Kylo's gonna see that folly. But I think that's a bad theme (friends make you weak).
    1. He is a good pilot, but Rey was piloting the Falcon like a champ with no training.

    2. Kylo did take out four to five and Rey one to two. That is impressive until you realize that Rey has barely had any training and is only being getting stronger.

    3. Ugh...Snoke. I'll give you Snoke but I'm not sure how someone can be so masterful that he could connect the minds of Rey and Kylo over such a great distance right under Luke Skywalker's nose without any of the three noticing but misreads his pupils intent to kill. The movie wants us to believe that Kylo has gained a new level of self-control but they haven't shown us anything that indicates that.

    4. He did hurt Luke, but Luke didn't want to fight Kylo. Kylo woke up at the exact moment Luke was filled with shame for thinking about killing him. If you're in a fight and you don't want to hurt the person and the person wants to hurt you you're going to get wrecked. A better example would be the match Rey (who doesn't have that much experience) had with Luke. It was non-lethal and she knocked him on his butt.

    Has Rey suffered any defeats at Kylo's hands?

    Han wasn't her father and neither was Luke.
    Finn survived.
    He didn't chop off any of her limbs.

    So far the only thing he did was hurt her feelings.

  5. #35
    Incredible Member the nomad's Avatar
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    And Temper Tantrum Kylo once again has no sense of value for First Order property. Still destroying stuff when he gets angry. I'm guessing the cost of that helmet and elevator will be coming out of his new Supreme Leader bank account.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    1. He is a good pilot, but Rey was piloting the Falcon like a champ with no training.
    I mean, it's clearly implied that she has experience piloting. It doesn't get into the details, but not everything needs to be spelled out. And with Rey, I'll admit some of her force powers have developed very quickly, but the lightsaber ability doesn't bother me too much. It may sound dumb, but she has shown proficiency with the staff, so it's not too much of a leap to believe that she would be good with a lightsaber with minimal training. These things are subtle, but she was clearly set up to have a rationale behind her skills that she displays on screen.

    As for Kylo, I kind of like that he struggles as a villain in the same way that most heroes struggle on their path to becoming a hero. It's not something you see too often in fiction, so to me that makes it super compelling. To me, this is what Anakin's story should have been like. Rather than going from good guy to killing children in 0.5 seconds.

  7. #37
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    3. Ugh...Snoke. I'll give you Snoke but I'm not sure how someone can be so masterful that he could connect the minds of Rey and Kylo over such a great distance right under Luke Skywalker's nose without any of the three noticing but misreads his pupils intent to kill. The movie wants us to believe that Kylo has gained a new level of self-control but they haven't shown us anything that indicates that.
    One thing this film hammered home is that the powerful/evil always underestimate those they consider lesser than, and that's an arrogance that can (and has) been exploited for the win.
    Conn Seanery
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conn Seanery View Post
    One thing this film hammered home is that the powerful/evil always underestimate those they consider lesser than, and that's an arrogance that can (and has) been exploited for the win.
    Yeah, I know but what really annoys me is that we aren't given anything up to that point to suggest that Kylo has gained that level of control over himself that he can fool Snoke. Show, don't tell.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Yeah, I know but what really annoys me is that we aren't given anything up to that point to suggest that Kylo has gained that level of control over himself that he can fool Snoke. Show, don't tell.
    What led you to believe that he couldn't?

  10. #40
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Yeah, I know but what really annoys me is that we aren't given anything up to that point to suggest that Kylo has gained that level of control over himself that he can fool Snoke. Show, don't tell.
    I would think that Snoke having the opportunity to play with two force sensitive puppets, an arguable rarity in the universe,
    and one of whom he thought was desperate to earn his approval, contributed to him letting his guard down.

    And as sneaky as the move was, consider what little amount of effort it might have taken someone who knows the Force to do the same thing under normal circumstances. How masterful in the Force do you have to be to make a lightsaber do a quarter turn and activate? And by the time they've reached the 2nd step of that move it's too late (for the victim) to do anything, so it's really just the saber quarter turn one needs to notice. It's not that surprising to me that Snoke missed it.
    Conn Seanery
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  11. #41
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the nomad View Post
    And Temper Tantrum Kylo once again has no sense of value for First Order property. Still destroying stuff when he gets angry. I'm guessing the cost of that helmet and elevator will be coming out of his new Supreme Leader bank account.
    CBR veteran and administrator Matt had the perfect nickname for Kylo back when THE FORCE AWAKENS was released: "Darth Teenage Rage." Granted, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren hasn't been a teenager in a while, but still, the nickname works!

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  12. #42
    Incredible Member Naked Bat's Avatar
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    Everytime he destroys something in anger, he looks like a 2 year old child. I'm still not sure if it's supposed to be funny.

  13. #43
    Incredible Member the nomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    CBR veteran and administrator Matt had the perfect nickname for Kylo back when THE FORCE AWAKENS was released: "Darth Teenage Rage." Granted, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren hasn't been a teenager in a while, but still, the nickname works!

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Darth Teenage Rage.....I love it.

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