Batman issue #37 Preview

[WontonGirl]

Exactly, blood always ends up with negative baggage just because of what it is. Overall comics are built on adopted bonds because these characters are almost always united by tragedy, loss, discrimination, common experiences, a desire to do good etc. I dont see DC or Marvel ever dumping on this concept because its the foundation on which cape comics exist. We know Batman's closest relationships have been with Dick, Alfred, Jim and Clark, none of them are his blood relatives. The existence of one Damian doesn't undo all of that and there's no attempt from writers to undo it either.

Then why do them in the first place?

[Phoenyxx1481]

So based upon the chosen atire, I'm guessing they decided where to go after everyone got ready? Can't say I've ever seen anyone dressed like Selina or Bruce at a county fair.

[Barbatos666]

Then why do them in the first place?

Usually to show bonds forged by something other than blood are superior or pure compared to blood bonds. And other times just to do something different for once. Adopted relationships are so commonplace that they end up cannibalizing each other especially if they exist in the same space. Its easier for Damian to get recognition as "son of Batman" when there is an armada of adopted kids diluting each others importance. Now remove them all except one and that character will be on equal grounds with Damian if not superior. These characters are just that characters not real people who can exist as a happy family, a writer may not have the time or the energy or the story ideas to spread evenly across hordes of characters fighting for the same space.

[WontonGirl]

Usually to show bonds forged by something other than blood are superior or pure compared to blood bonds. And other times just to do something different for once.

Yeah I can see that.

[Punisher007]

I'd actually like to see Lois and Selina interact more after this. It seems like it could be a cool dynamic.

And hey, cheesecake done WELL in comics? That's, a rarity, bravo Mr. Mann, bravo.

[WontonGirl]

I would like to see Selina and Lois interact more as well.

You know it's interesting, I don't even think I see Lois interact with any of the other SO. I mean, would it kill to have a picnic scene where Iris and Lois are sitting at a table eating and talking and then Steve and Selina comes over and sits down? LOLOL!

[Arnoldoaad]

I disagree. Chris was a character who was great when first introduced, but got screwed over by writers/editorial (I don't know the details on this one.) Not a NOTHING character like Kite-Man.

Christopher Kent: Adopted son of Lois and Clark. Totally adorable. Victim of DC's incompetence. Currently being written just as OOC as Holly over in Action Comics under his Kryptonian name, Lor-Zod.

Thats the first character who I thought about but I just dont see the connection

I completely agree that Chris is a huge screw up
An incredibly interesting concept that just Failed miserably but not that is similar to what is happening to Holly
first of all
He was NOT a character, Holly was, Chris was not a characterin the way that it mattered, but the reason why he didnt matter was because he was never meant to be a character to begin with.
When Johns started Last son of Krypton, it was going to be 6 issues which started with him appearing and then him going to the phantom zone at the end, but then LSoK got delayed(several months btw) and they fill him in a lot of filler issues and on other comics in which he was there but did not matter at all that he was there or not.
Then he became Nightwing which was one of the most Bizarre changes ever made, at this point Nightwing from New Krypton could had been a completely different character and had exactly the same impact that he had in that story, even his romance with flamebird was dumb and forced because she dies and I cannot remember a single reaction from him.
then he goes back to the PZ and practically the same way that he went on the first thing.
But here is the thing, this is not because the editorial was bad with Chris, it was because Ed was bad with the entirety of the New Krypton arc, it was an entire year on Superman and 90+ comics that culminated in ****ing nothing.
I swear I read every single chap of the New Krypton saga and that is the only comic story that made me thing "my god, I wasted my time reading this"
for all technical purposes Chris Kent might had never ever left the PZ and his story and concept would had remained exactly the same.

Now the new Lor-Zod is not Chris. not even in concept. Chris was much more than just the son of Zod, he was closer to what Johnatan Kent is now, he was suppouse to be a new Superboy, the adopted son of Superman.
he is not a reinvention of Chris, he is a new thing entirely, and im actually excited of what will happen to this new concept.

Holly on the other hand is kinda meant to be same character on the same start but simply took a different path at some point.
now I know the continuity of it is a little confusing but the way I think King sees it is that this is the same Holly from Batman Year One but grew up on a different character.
Chris and Lor are just different characters and thats it.

[dietrich]

Gosh this thread got off course I can't even remember the preview.

[SiegePerilous02]

Supergirl's biological dad got turned into a Cyborg-Superman, Jor-El's a villain now (kinda)

And this one goes hand in hand with Kara being adopted by the Danvers, who are for all intents and purposes a nice couple who love her a lot.

And not sure if it was mentioned, but Billy Batson and his foster siblings with the Vasquezs (even if we haven't seen any of them in a while).

Holly on the other hand is kinda meant to be same character on the same start but simply took a different path at some point.
now I know the continuity of it is a little confusing but the way I think King sees it is that this is the same Holly from Batman Year One but grew up on a different character.
Chris and Lor are just different characters and thats it.

Yes, Holly is first and foremost known for her role in Year One as a child prostitute in Selina's care to show that Selina has a heart. Nothing else she's been in has had the same impact/is as well known for the majority of readers, and the foundation is already pretty dark. Her later stories are no longer in continuity, and this one experienced a traumatic event that the previous version didn't experience, and so we wouldn't know how she'd react. Reacting the way she did isn't too jarring either considering we know she was a kid in a messed up situation and stabbed the guy who was trying to help her.

I'd actually like to see Lois and Selina interact more after this. It seems like it could be a cool dynamic.

And hey, cheesecake done WELL in comics? That's, a rarity, bravo Mr. Mann, bravo.

Yes, fanservice is awesome if it is done well (and not over done). And they are spreading the love around with Bruce and Clark here as well.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

The best part of this preview for me was seeing Wonder Woman's classic costume and Vic Sage.

[Frontier]

Yes, Holly is first and foremost known for her role in Year One as a child prostitute in Selina's care to show that Selina has a heart. Nothing else she's been in has had the same impact/is as well known for the majority of readers, and the foundation is already pretty dark. Her later stories are no longer in continuity, and this one experienced a traumatic event that the previous version didn't experience, and so we wouldn't know how she'd react. Reacting the way she did isn't too jarring either considering we know she was a kid in a messed up situation and stabbed the guy who was trying to help her.

I think you're underestimating how impactful the Brubaker run was.

I mean, not only has it defined a lot about modern Catwoman (even beyond the costume), but I'm pretty sure Brubaker's use of Holly was one of the most praised parts of the book, to the point where it got a GLAAD award.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think you're underestimating how impactful the Brubaker run was.

I mean, not only has it defined a lot about modern Catwoman (even beyond the costume), but I'm pretty sure Brubaker's use of Holly was one of the most praised parts of the book, to the point where it got a GLAAD award.

Oh I probably am, but according to Comic Vine the last Brubaker issue with Holly was back in 2005, over a decade ago. And outside of the subsequent Pfeifer run, has a whole lot been done with her since? There is also the fact that it is most likely no longer in continuity, and this Holly experienced something that the previous Holly did not, so we can't rightly claim that this is OOC for her either way because she's on a different path.

As someone who knows Holly from Year One, but nothing else, there isn't a perception of Holly to ruin. There is for some fans, but a lot of others are coming into this book with no prior attachments to her and find the new take interesting (and not unsympathetic). Are they wrong to do so? Because not much was being done with the character anyway, and nobody can read everything ever published with every character.

[Frontier]

Oh I probably am, but according to Comic Vine the last Brubaker issue with Holly was back in 2005, over a decade ago. And outside of the subsequent Pfeifer run, has a whole lot been done with her since? There is also the fact that it is most likely no longer in continuity, and this Holly experienced something that the previous Holly did not, so we can't rightly claim that this is OOC for her either way because she's on a different path.

As someone who knows Holly from Year One, but nothing else, there isn't a perception of Holly to ruin. There is for some fans, but a lot of others are coming into this book with no prior attachments to her and find the new take interesting (and not unsympathetic). Are they wrong to do so? Because not much was being done with the character anyway, and nobody can read everything ever published with every character.

A lot was done with the character prior to her being in limbo though, that actually made her a unique and vibrant character, which is being completely ignored with this. I think that's more of an issue then just it feeling OOC, even if Brubaker's run isn't in continuity anymore (but who knows what is and isn't at this point).

I can understand not being that bothered by it if you're only experience with Holly is Year One, though conversely I also think it's perfectly understandable for people who've read more of her since that story to not be happy with her treatment so far.

I can't say I quite see what's so interesting about the new Holly because, so far, she's felt more like a plot device then an actual character. I'd be surprised if she ever really does anything of significance once she turns herself in and clears Selina's name.

[WontonGirl]

A lot was done with the character prior to her being in limbo though, that actually made her a unique and vibrant character, which is being completely ignored with this. I think that's more of an issue then just it feeling OOC, even if Brubaker's run isn't in continuity anymore (but who knows what is and isn't at this point).

I can understand not being that bothered by it if you're only experience with Holly is Year One, though conversely I also think it's perfectly understandable for people who've read more of her since that story to not be happy with her treatment so far.

I can't say I quite see what's so interesting about the new Holly because, so far, she's felt more like a plot device then an actual character. I'd be surprised if she ever really does anything of significance once she turns herself in and clears Selina's name.

Why are you saying Brubaker's run is not in continuity? According to Rebirth and how it's supposed to be set up, the histories and (some) of the relationships of these characters are re-established.

The way I understood it, Rebirth is trying to re-connecting Pre-N52. So that would mean, Year One, Brubaker's Holly AND Pfiefer's Holly is all part of the same train.

[Jackalope89]

Why are you saying Brubaker's run is not in continuity? According to Rebirth and how it's supposed to be set up, the histories and (some) of the relationships of these characters are re-established.

The way I understood it, Rebirth is trying to re-connecting Pre-N52. So that would mean, Year One, Brubaker's Holly AND Pfiefer's Holly is all part of the same train.

Well, some of pre-New52 is being brought back. Like Final Crisis. And the original Teen Titans. But things like the New Teen Titans (which had Cyborg) apparently aren't brought back.

In short, we won't know what's brought back until its been said.