November sales chart

[Prof. Warren]

So Legacy, which still bring new titles every month, has no impact. That's what you're saying ?

Legacy had enough of an impact to keep Marvel ahead of DC in $.

And while there were Legacy arcs launched in November, there were no new #1's, no new series and no events.

Contrast that to DC, which had a lot of major firepower but still had to settle for splitting wins in the Diamond categories with Marvel.

Look at it this way - if during the height of Secret Empire, if Marvel had filled the majority of the Top Ten but still couldn't beat DC in dollars, that would signal a bit of a problem in regards to their overall line.

[Magneto]

Legacy had enough of an impact to keep Marvel ahead of DC in $.

And while there were Legacy arcs launched in November, there were no new #1's, no new series and no events.

Contrast that to DC, which had a lot of major firepower but still had to settle for splitting wins in the Diamond categories with Marvel.

Look at it this way - if during the height of Secret Empire, if Marvel had filled the majority of the Top Ten but still couldn't beat DC in dollars, that would signal a bit of a problem in regards to their overall line.

No 1's, but plenty of renumbering.
No big events, but some small events/crossovers.
There was some new series actually (Moon Knight, Falcon, Captain America, Spirits of Vengeance, etc.)

[Solid Snake]

All the titles which had their first and second Legacy issues in October have dropped further with their third issues in November by the way.

Those were the numbers in October,

Deadpool- 94k->34k
X-Men Gold- 82k->42k
X-Men Blue- 71k->38k
Amazing Spider-Man- 110k->53k
Venom- 76k->26k
Wolverine- 62k->29k

And in November,
Despicable Deadpool - 31k
X-Men: Gold - 40k, 39k
X-Men: Blue - 36k, 34k
Amazing Spider-man - 50k
Venom - 25k
All-New Wolverine - 27k

So the previous month's second issue numbers doesn't seem so irrelevant now, contrary to what Prof. Warren claimed in October Sales thread.

*Sigh* You'd think that people who follow comics would already understand this but I'll explain:

If there were two issues of a Legacy book in October, retailers would order heavy on the initial issue and then (and this is important) because they don't know yet what the first issue will actually sell in their store (because it hasn't actually come out yet, remember) and they can't yet accurately gauge the demand for the next issue, they will order more conservatively on the second issue, more in line with what the title usually sells.

This happens all the time when a new #1 comes out and the second issue is released in the same month. Order heavy on the first issue, more modestly on the second.

So how Legacy is selling will not be reflected immediately. Subsequent months will tell on these titles whether retailers continue to order more, less or the same as before.

[JKtheMac]

Tad bit embarrassing for Marvel I think

Or you could just see it as yet another month that Marvel gained more revenue than any other publisher. It really depends how you want to look at it.

Dollar Market Share
Marvel 34.29%
DC 33.71%
Image 8.07%
IDW 4.04%
Dynamite 2.20%
Dark Horse 2.08%
Boom 2.06%
Viz 1.34%
Titan 1.31%
Oni 1.23%

[Of Atlantis]

Or you could just see it as yet another month that Marvel gained more revenue than any other publisher. It really depends how you want to look at it.

Dollar Market Share
Marvel 34.29%
DC 33.71%
Image 8.07%
IDW 4.04%
Dynamite 2.20%
Dark Horse 2.08%
Boom 2.06%
Viz 1.34%
Titan 1.31%
Oni 1.23%

I think it's important to consider the long term sustainability. How long can Marvel sell less at a higher price before they either have to sell more or raise the prices? And if they're pushing more product, does that not cost more to print, advertise, and transport? Unfortunately, we don't see actual profit margins, but it's important to consider.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Falcon is a prime example of why legacy characters are needed in the current market. The book is on its 2nd issue and is already selling less than Captain America: Sam Wilson ever did.

[cranger]

Legacy had enough of an impact to keep Marvel ahead of DC in $.

As I already pointed out, Legacy had nothing to do with Marvel staying ahead in $ since DC actually had a higher dollar share in the Top 300 (44% vs 37%). It was other 'comic related' stuff that Marvel made more money on.

[JKtheMac]

I think it's important to consider the long term sustainability. How long can Marvel sell less at a higher price before they either have to sell more or raise the prices? And if they're pushing more product, does that not cost more to print, advertise, and transport? Unfortunately, we don't see actual profit margins, but it's important to consider.

If you want to go down that route then consider the long term sustainability of selling comics a dollar cheaper.

[cranger]

I think it's important to consider the long term sustainability. How long can Marvel sell less at a higher price before they either have to sell more or raise the prices? And if they're pushing more product, does that not cost more to print, advertise, and transport? Unfortunately, we don't see actual profit margins, but it's important to consider.

Print (paper) costs are one of the smallest costs of comics and actually get smaller when you are printing in greater volumes. It all adds up, and for comic shops I am sure they would rather sell more $3.99 comics because they make more per sale with less cost in shipping, but for DC/Marvel the costs they are worried about is creative teams, editors, office staff, marketing, lawyers, etc.

From our (readers) perspective, stable sales and more units means a title is doing better with readers, and as a reader that means more to me than how much Marvel/DC are reporting to their shareholders. When I look at these, I look at them to gauge where the industry is going, as stated above, are we due for another price increase or some other change to publishing practices.

[JKtheMac]

As I already pointed out, Legacy had nothing to do with Marvel staying ahead in $ since DC actually had a higher dollar share in the Top 300 (44% vs 37%). It was other 'comic related' stuff that Marvel made more money on.

You mean 'other comic related stuff' like other comics perhaps? What on earth are you talking about? Are you so focused on DC vs Marvel that you care about exactly how they make their money?

[cranger]

You mean 'other comic related stuff' like other comics perhaps? What on earth are you talking about? Are you so focused on DC vs Marvel that you care about exactly how they make their money?

Like Graphic Novels and other merchandise. The market share numbers incorporate a lot more than just single issue new releases.

[fin5]

Whats going on with the Marvel to Marvel sales at the Beat.I know it takes time but the last one was July.Are they still doing it

[JKtheMac]

Like Graphic Novels and other merchandise. The market share numbers incorporate a lot more than just single issue new releases.

But what is your actual point? That somehow this means Marvel had a bad month? That was the kind of bad month most comic publishers would die for.

[Iron Maiden]

So, unsurprisingly Iron Man has crashed and burned, already at pre-Legacy sales after one issue. With that said, I don't think that Iron Man has found its floor yet, I expect sales will keep on plummeting from here on out. At least Infamous Iron Man had a stable readership, despite zero marketing support from Marvel. This current Iron Man title is just a stealth continuation of the Riri book, with the left over completed Infamous pages thrown in. People after smart enough to see through this cynical move and aren't buying into it.

I think Marvel needs to give Ironheart her own book and see if it floats. I don't hate her character but it's past time for them to test the market for a solo book with Ironheart as the title. Stop trying to fool Invincible Iron Man fans into buying this. They're on to you, Marvel.

[cranger]

But what is your actual point? That somehow this means Marvel had a bad month? That was the kind of bad month most comic publishers would die for.

A claim was made that Legacy was doing well enough to keep Marvel ahead of DC in terms of dollars despite Doomsday Clock and Dark Metal doing well. That is not accurate at all because Legacy sales are only seen in the Top 300, same with Doomsday Clock and Dark Metal.

In November Top 300 comics sales were $25.37 million. DC had 44% of the dollar share of the Top 300 while Marvel had 38%.
Compare that to October where Top 300 comics sales were $27.2 million and Marvel had 45% and DC only 35%.

Forget DC here, the other poster is the one worried about that, but just look at Marvel. In the Top 300 they went from $12.24 million in October to $9.64 million in November.

Legacy is clearly not the source of Marvel's dollar share this month.