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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    Well at least Iceman has seemed to stabilize. It's not a very impressive number to hold onto, but... it's something.

    Was I reading that wrong? It looked like November sold 12k and October sold 22k

    How is that stabilization?

  2. #92
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Marvel Legacy. You need to compare it to September's numbers, not October's.

  3. #93
    Astonishing Member maxhilary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Marvel Legacy. You need to compare it to September's numbers, not October's.
    Yup. Pretty much every title got their numbers doubled for Legacy because of the lenticular covers, and then returned back to pre-Legacy numbers.

  4. #94
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Keep in mind from a money only perspective, a double shipping issue that sells 35,000 copies is more lucrative than a monthly title that sells 65,00 issues.

    Anywho as always, there are many things it can all be attributed to. First, all comic sales are down which shows it's not just xmen, it the market in general.

    I also blame pirating and how ok our culture can be with it. People come up with a million ways to rationalize their habits but in the end, if you aren't financially supporting a product that you consume, then you can't really complain when it is discontinued (note when I say "you" I don't mean anyone in particular in this thread).

    Also just to be balanced, I will say the trend of digital comic sales also likely brings down numbers in figures like this.
    So it's not all doom gloom.
    Your favorite superhero- the one you visit these forums to talk about. Would they talk to others the way you do on this message board?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    I also blame pirating and how ok our culture can be with it. People come up with a million ways to rationalize their habits but in the end, if you aren't financially supporting a product that you consume, then you can't really complain when it is discontinued (note when I say "you" I don't mean anyone in particular in this thread).
    Print media has been a dying industry for 40 years. Anyone in print media hasn't made money in probably 20 years. It's the reason marvel was sold off in the first place.

    Pirating doesn't have much to do with it. Pirating is "stealing" as much as charging $3.99 for a book with 1/4 of the content is stealing from the buyer. the comic industry is a conundrum people will buy things that they hate and they'll keep on buying. This doesn't provide any incentive for the industry to change. Those who don't pay are the only ones actually sending a message. B&C on a message board does f*&( all.

    They're losing money for multiple reasons it's not just one, or two.

  6. #96
    Incredible Member rogueisbae's Avatar
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    Gen X got cancelled; #87 is the last issue according to Strain.

  7. #97
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    yogaflame, I'd appreciate it very much if you read this article: https://medium.com/@RowanKaiser/how-...t-9bf878290bae

    I'm not under the delusion that it will make you a Scemma lover overnight but it is way more articulate and eloquent about Scott's journey during the Morrison era and post-Morrison and the interesting prospects his relationship with Emma presented for the X-Men, than I could ever be.

    I also think Morrison deliberately put some things in a darker place for the X-Men (albeit not without hope) because the mutants as a whole were at a much less hopeless place. A more progressive place presents different, more complex quandaries and all that jazz. I also wonder if Quesada & co. were letting him know their "concerns" repeatedly about how the mutant subculture had, as they believe, deflated the tension of the mutant condition and how too many supers = nobody's super bleep bloop.
    I'm going to offer my unsolicited opinion. There's a ton of problems, and a few nitpicks with the article you're citing. Let's hit a few high notes:

    -The article uses a Tumblr post written by "doctordisaster" as evidence to justify how unappealing Scott is pre-Morrison
    -This statement is made "He's a leader who doesn't lead" but no evidence of this assertion is provided
    -All the context of Scott's interactions with Maddie and X-Factor Jean are left out (a clear sign of an agenda on the author's part)
    -Anyone who state's Wolverine is Jean OTP like it's a fact just lost all credibility IMO (another clear sign of an agenda on the author's part)
    -The author asserts that the 20 bedroom panels from Scott and Emma's ship over the 8 years they were together created great characterization
    -The author argues that sex based entirely on Emma's power play was the healthy choice for Scott
    -The author argues that Scott has to be an a-hole for mutants to survive decimation
    -This line: "His leadership power, his secrets, his impulses, and his relationship with Emma are inextricable from one another."
    -The author argues that the X-Men survived by discarding their moral code (and the gov't gave Scott a medal so it must have been right)
    -The author closes out by saying, it turned out Scott's approach of isolating key mutants lead to the breakdown of Utopia and the death of Xavier (was that supposed to be convincing?)
    -The author straight up acknowledges that the somewhat shallow nature of Emma and Scott's ship wasn't strong enough to survive the PF

    Cyclops' ass being the key to his leadership and recruitment abilities during the 00's and 10's was the only part of this article that was properly defended.

    There were certainly aspect of Scott and Emma that I liked but sadly, this article misses all of them, while also avoiding how terrible their relationship was for the last few years before AvX.

  8. #98
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueisbae View Post
    Gen X got cancelled; #87 is the last issue according to Strain.
    $#!€{?\&@%#£§¥!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not unexpected, but still achingly painful. One of the best written books in the whole X-lineup and it can’t get the love it deserves because of subpar art and a newbie cast. If Marvel had done what GenX fans wanted from the start and given us the original team from day one, and had invested in a better artist, they’d have gotten a better result.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Yer bonkers and you need a sandwich.

  9. #99
    ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ Fantasy Free Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueisbae View Post
    Gen X got cancelled; #87 is the last issue according to Strain.
    Shame. I really liked the tone of the book and Strain's writing was quite good. Hope she gets another book at least.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasy Free Me View Post
    Shame. I really liked the tone of the book and Strain's writing was quite good. Hope she gets another book at least.
    Hard pass, I don't care if Neil Gaiman is writing with Immonem on art, as long as Quentin Quire is there I'm never ever ever ever buying it... Unless is his dead body hanging from a tree

    Bring this guys

  11. #101
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    Hard pass, I don't care if Neil Gaiman is writing with Immonem on art, as long as Quentin Quire is there I'm never ever ever ever buying it... Unless is his dead body hanging from a tree
    Damn that's savage.

    Bring this guys
    I approve.

  12. #102
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I'm going to offer my unsolicited opinion. There's a ton of problems, and a few nitpicks with the article you're citing. Let's hit a few high notes:

    -The article uses a Tumblr post written by "doctordisaster" as evidence to justify how unappealing Scott is pre-Morrison
    -This statement is made "He's a leader who doesn't lead" but no evidence of this assertion is provided
    -All the context of Scott's interactions with Maddie and X-Factor Jean are left out (a clear sign of an agenda on the author's part)
    -Anyone who state's Wolverine is Jean OTP like it's a fact just lost all credibility IMO (another clear sign of an agenda on the author's part)
    -The author asserts that the 20 bedroom panels from Scott and Emma's ship over the 8 years they were together created great characterization
    -The author argues that sex based entirely on Emma's power play was the healthy choice for Scott
    -The author argues that Scott has to be an a-hole for mutants to survive decimation
    -This line: "His leadership power, his secrets, his impulses, and his relationship with Emma are inextricable from one another."
    -The author argues that the X-Men survived by discarding their moral code (and the gov't gave Scott a medal so it must have been right)
    -The author closes out by saying, it turned out Scott's approach of isolating key mutants lead to the breakdown of Utopia and the death of Xavier (was that supposed to be convincing?)
    -The author straight up acknowledges that the somewhat shallow nature of Emma and Scott's ship wasn't strong enough to survive the PF

    Cyclops' ass being the key to his leadership and recruitment abilities during the 00's and 10's was the only part of this article that was properly defended.

    There were certainly aspect of Scott and Emma that I liked but sadly, this article misses all of them, while also avoiding how terrible their relationship was for the last few years before AvX.
    The article's overdoing the "Scott was hated before Morrison" aspect (though didn't someone on the popular CBR X-Men thread wonder why Scott was so popular here? So maybe CBR X-Board is actually in the minority for its Cyclops >> Wolverine perspective? I dunno). I have seen a lot of media commentators too talk about how boring, stick in the mud and underdeveloped Cyclops was compared to Wolverine pre-Morrison so maybe that opinion is not that much in the minority. I mean, even CBR had Cyclops head its "Worst Mutants List" a couple of years back or so. As an aside, pre AvX, everyone and their mother was dumping on Scott on this very forum. I used to lurk and had just joined during Schism/Regenesis, where the majority were vocally on Team Logan (Gold), until AvX came about and the Gold side ended up being spineless sellouts.

    Whatever. In their vilification of Emma, a lot of Jott fans conveniently skip over Scott's treatment of Maddie and child and reassure themselves that Maddie was evil so it was fine to dump her when in fact she was made evil (against Claremont's initial wishes) so as to not make Scott look like a major a-hole.

    I also don't see how the author "straight up acknowledges that the somewhat shallow nature of Emma and Scott's ship wasn't strong enough to survive the PF" when he just talks about the BDSM aspect of their relationship suddenly turning incredibly abusive and toxic when put in the PF context. That's more a critique of Bendis and co.'s handling of the relationship and some of its aspects in AvX more so than the relationship itself.

    I also agree with the article that Scott couldn't have afforded to have been as rigid and impractical as before when his people were faced with literal extinction. Adaptation in dire situations = Survival and not being "an a-hole" otherwise you get Ned Stark-d. But that's another discussion altogether. A lot of points raised here.
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 12-19-2017 at 11:35 AM.

  13. #103
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Confuzzled View Post
    The article's overdoing the "Scott was hated before Morrison" aspect (though didn't someone on the popular CBR X-Men thread wonder why Scott was so popular here? So maybe CBR X-Board is actually in the minority for its Cyclops >> Wolverine perspective? I dunno). I have seen a lot of media commentators too talk about how boring, stick in the mud and underdeveloped Cyclops was compared to Wolverine pre-Morrison so maybe that opinion is not that much in the minority. I mean, even CBR had Cyclops head its "Worst Mutants List" a couple of years back or so. As an aside, pre AvX, everyone and their mother was dumping on Scott on this very forum. I used to lurk and had just joined during Schism/Regenesis, where the majority were vocally on Team Logan (Gold), until AvX came about and the Gold side ended up being spineless sellouts.

    Whatever. In their vilification of Emma, a lot of Jott fans conveniently skip over Scott's treatment of Maddie and child and reassure themselves that Maddie was evil so it was fine to dump her when in fact she was made evil (against Claremont's initial wishes) so as to not make Scott look like a major a-hole.

    I also don't see how the author "straight up acknowledges that the somewhat shallow nature of Emma and Scott's ship wasn't strong enough to survive the PF" when he just talks about the BDSM aspect of their relationship suddenly turning incredibly abusive and toxic when put in the PF context. That's more a critique of Bendis and co.'s handling of the relationship and some of its aspects in AvX more so than the relationship itself.

    I also agree with the article that Scott couldn't have afforded to have been as rigid and impractical as before when his people were faced with literal extinction. Adaptation in dire situations = Survival and not being "an a-hole" otherwise you get Ned Stark-d. But that's another discussion altogether. A lot of points raised here.
    CBR press has zero understanding or insight into the x-men and gets their opinions from a magic 8 ball and\or Youtube lists created by those even less informed. Scott=boring is just rehashed arguments from 90's Wolverine fans that few care to try to defend today. I can count the number of people who care about Maddie on one had with three fingers missing. You can tell alot about writers who bring up Maddie without bringing up any of the context. I get enough of that here thanks.

    "There’s also an unfortunate subtext that the BDSM nature of Scott and Emma’s relationship prevents it from being being sturdy enough to survive the Phoenix Force, leading to Scott betraying Emma." That means their relationship wasn't strong enough to deal with the PF. The author is reaching by blaming the BDSM nature for which he cites no evidence (because none exists).

    This is getting wildly off topic. Create a thread for this if you feel it needs to be discussed further.

  14. #104
    Secretly in the Shadows Starleafgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dementia5 View Post
    $#!€{?\&@%#£§¥!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Not unexpected, but still achingly painful. One of the best written books in the whole X-lineup and it can’t get the love it deserves because of subpar art and a newbie cast. If Marvel had done what GenX fans wanted from the start and given us the original team from day one, and had invested in a better artist, they’d have gotten a better result.
    +1 to all this.

    Sad to see, yet not unexpected.
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  15. #105

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    I was going to give your article a chance, I started reading until I realized the author's main point revolved around me finding Cyclops in a gimp suit sexy. Hard pass. I can appreciate what Morrison brought to the table, I really can. I loved his run(except for the ending), and Claremont's X-Treme that ran parallel. Those runs pulled me back into comics after the mid-late 90's sent me away. But what came afterwards was just crap. I ain't buying it(and neither is anyone else if these sales figures are to be believed)!

    I'm not a fan of excessive, gratuitous violence. I'm not a fan of moral relativism. Utopia built on the ruins of Asteroid M/Avalon, which were themselves built upon the ruins of Cable's base, which itself was the remnants of Apocalypes's Ship, did nothing for me. 200 people does not a nation make. King Cyclops and Queen Emma do nothing for me. Cyke's faux revolution did nothing for me.

    All the promise of Morrison's big ideas were completely unfulfilled, and Emma and Scott really only brought out the worst in each other. They ate steaks in human blood sauce for gods sake. Jean might have incidentally killed a whole planet by eating a star(after Emma and Mastermind had been manipulating her for months), but she didn't get all crazy, demented like that. She was unthinking and it was horrible, but she wasn't all like, "Ooohh look, a broccoli people, I want to see what they taste like just for the perverted thrill!"
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

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