View Poll Results: How has THE LAST JEDI affected your view of Luke Skywalker?

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  • Luke is GREATER than ever!

    24 25.81%
  • No change. Luke is Luke, just older.

    14 15.05%
  • Didn't like this take on him at all.

    55 59.14%
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  1. #61
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    The First Order would have gone after Luke...IF they knew where to find him. Like everyone else, though, the First Order searched in vain for years. Snoke and Kylo totally wanted to destroy Luke Skywalker...but first, they had to find him.

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  2. #62
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    The First Order would have gone after Luke...IF they knew where to find him. Like everyone else, though, the First Order searched in vain for years. Snoke and Kylo totally wanted to destroy Luke Skywalker...but first, they had to find him.

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    I think the film makes it clear that if Luke had single-handedly confronted the First Order, he would have been killed. The circumstances of this conflict were much different than those when he was part of the Rebellion.

    1. The Resistance has never had the same kind of uniform backing the Rebellion did, since the New Republic didn't fully support it.
    2. Snoke and Kylo were actively seeking Luke to kill him, whereas Vader and Palpatine both wanted Luke alive to turn him.
    3. Snoke can't find Luke because he's cut himself off from the Force.

    The rise of the First Order isn't Luke's fault, it's the New Republic's.

    And Rian Johnson has made it clear in interviews that Luke isn't hiding out of cowardice, he genuinely believes the Jedi Order is a threat to the universe. In his mind, he's sacrificing his relationships with his friends and family for the greater good. Yes, he's wrong, but like his impulsive choice to fly to Bespin to save his friends, something good comes from his mistaken isolationism. He lives long enough to see his true path and save the Resistance.

  3. #63
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    I was fine with how Luke was handled and Mark Hamill gave a good performance.

    On the other hand, I am familiar with how Legends handled Luke post-ROTJ. There, he stayed in the game even when he lost students and keep going until he had a functional Jedi Order. Honestly, he was not a very interesting character at all. The movie's version, a person who made a mistake and made more mistakes because of that initial one, but ultimately overcomes them and regains what he lost, this is an interesting character.

    Honestly, I think they gave him a good send off. Remember, he doesn't become one with the Force as the cranky hermit who cut himself from the world forever to stew over his failures, but as the Jedi Master who was willing to do what needed to be done to save the day regardless of the personal cost and lived up to the legend created around him (and made his legacy not be the things he got wrong, but the things he got right).
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  4. #64
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I was fine with how Luke was handled and Mark Hamill gave a good performance.

    On the other hand, I am familiar with how Legends handled Luke post-ROTJ. There, he stayed in the game even when he lost students and keep going until he had a functional Jedi Order. Honestly, he was not a very interesting character at all. The movie's version, a person who made a mistake and made more mistakes because of that initial one, but ultimately overcomes them and regains what he lost, this is an interesting character.

    Honestly, I think they gave him a good send off. Remember, he doesn't become one with the Force as the cranky hermit who cut himself from the world forever to stew over his failures, but as the Jedi Master who was willing to do what needed to be done to save the day regardless of the personal cost and lived up to the legend created around him (and made his legacy not be the things he got wrong, but the things he got right).
    Agreed. Luke has become vastly more interesting.

    Psychological crises are real and can be every bit as debilitating as a physical illness. If anything, Luke is even more heroic than he's ever been. He overcomes real mental anguish to do what needs to be done.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Good point. It could be hydrochloric acid for all we know. I don't believe we actually see anybody take a swim.
    We saw Luke carrying a fish so presumably fish were swimming in it, plus doesn't Rey end up in the water at some point? I think she's soaking wet in the scene with the cave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    You know what?

    I don't think Luke brought Vader back from the Dark Side at all. He tried, failed completely, and then almost got himself killed for his trouble.
    It's an interesting theory, provided you ignore every interview with Lucas, Hamill, James Earl Jones and everyone else involved in the making of the film.
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  6. #66
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah, for the most part Luke in the novels pretty much remains locked in his ROTJ characterization.


    Which I think was part of the problem with ROTJ-the characters feel like they have a bit less depth at times, and lacked some of their previous edge; Han's the biggest offender, but Leia as well (Her bickering with Han is non-existent pretty much)....
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    It's an interesting theory, provided you ignore every interview with Lucas, Hamill, James Earl Jones and everyone else involved in the making of the film.
    The prequels have altered the context of those scenes.
    Whereas before it kind of worked as intended, it now has the guy who only turned to the Dark Side inan attempt to save his family being pushed back to the Light by a Sith jackass who thinks torturing his son to death right in front of him i in any way a good idea.

    Now, if Palpatine had just pulled out his own Lighsaber and quickly decapitated Luke instead of making a whole spectacle of the thing, Vader wouldn't have turned. It's really Palpatine drawing things out that gives Vader the chance to turn.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    The prequels have altered the context of those scenes.
    Whereas before it kind of worked as intended, it now has the guy who only turned to the Dark Side inan attempt to save his family being pushed back to the Light by a Sith jackass who thinks torturing his son to death right in front of him i in any way a good idea.

    Now, if Palpatine had just pulled out his own Lighsaber and quickly decapitated Luke instead of making a whole spectacle of the thing, Vader wouldn't have turned. It's really Palpatine drawing things out that gives Vader the chance to turn.
    As Luke himself observed about Palpatine, his overconfidence was his weakness. Palpatine was *so* confident that things would go exactly as he had foreseen (conveniently overlooking the fact that Vader sensed Luke's presence on Endor when Palpatine didn't) that he never even imagined Vader would turn on him. Palpatine figured he had Vader completely in his thrall.

    Luke seemed to have a better read on the situation than Palpatine did, which is why Luke won that struggle.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    As Luke himself observed about Palpatine, his overconfidence was his weakness. Palpatine was *so* confident that things would go exactly as he had foreseen (conveniently overlooking the fact that Vader sensed Luke's presence on Endor when Palpatine didn't) that he never even imagined Vader would turn on him. Palpatine figured he had Vader completely in his thrall.

    Luke seemed to have a better read on the situation than Palpatine did, which is why Luke won that struggle.

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    Palps really was the worst Sith ever.

    He's your apprentice. Turning on you is pretty much his entire job description. It's what you're supposed to be training him to do in the first place.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Palps really was the worst Sith ever.
    Was he? The guy got himself installed as Chancellor in TPM and then ruled the galaxy for 40+ years, while wiping out the Jedi (A few escaped but they were driven into hiding). That's not too shabby, imo.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    Palps really was the worst Sith ever.

    He's your apprentice. Turning on you is pretty much his entire job description. It's what you're supposed to be training him to do in the first place.
    Palpatine saw Vader as a crippled cyborg who didn't have the means to challenge him. Palpatine perceived Luke as the threat he had to focus on.

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  12. #72
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    I think the film makes it clear that if Luke had single-handedly confronted the First Order, he would have been killed. The circumstances of this conflict were much different than those when he was part of the Rebellion.

    1. The Resistance has never had the same kind of uniform backing the Rebellion did, since the New Republic didn't fully support it.
    2. Snoke and Kylo were actively seeking Luke to kill him, whereas Vader and Palpatine both wanted Luke alive to turn him.
    3. Snoke can't find Luke because he's cut himself off from the Force.

    The rise of the First Order isn't Luke's fault, it's the New Republic's.

    And Rian Johnson has made it clear in interviews that Luke isn't hiding out of cowardice, he genuinely believes the Jedi Order is a threat to the universe. In his mind, he's sacrificing his relationships with his friends and family for the greater good. Yes, he's wrong, but like his impulsive choice to fly to Bespin to save his friends, something good comes from his mistaken isolationism. He lives long enough to see his true path and save the Resistance.
    The problem with TLJ is that Snoke and Kylo don't seem like that big of a threat and that Luke could have stopped them if he hadn't been hiding on his island like a coward. If Kylo can take out Snoke, then why can't Luke?

    I don't care about who Snoke is, but him being immensely powerful better explains why Luke had to go into hiding. Kylo may have just gotten lucky, but Snoke's death makes Luke hiding from him seem far more pathetic.

    Knowing the backstory presented in the novels of what's going on with Leia, the Republic and The First Order makes it even more frustrating since there's the opportunity to stop the First Order. Obviously, that couldn't happen because then the whole plot of the movies couldn't happen. But the solution to that is to build up Snoke rather than tear down Luke.

  13. #73
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Kylo took out Snoke not because of any lack of power on Snoke's part but because he utilized the element of surprise. It wasn't necessarily luck, but it was definitely shrewdness. Something virtually no one else but Kylo could have possibly pulled off. If Luke confronted Snoke there would be no surprise. Snoke would clearly know what Luke was there for. Thus Luke wouldn't be able to bisect him without a second thought. Would he win? Would he lose? I don't know. But it wouldn't have been easy, however said confrontation went. What Kylo did is not comparable in any way to any potential Snoke/Luke encounter at any period. Snoke's death as it happens reflects on nothing about Luke's exile, positive or negative.

    Long story short, "context" is the answer to the question "if Kylo can take out Snoke, why can't Luke?"
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-09-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Kylo took out Snoke not because of any lack of power but because he utilized the element of surprise. It wasn't necessarily luck, but it was definitely shrewdness. Something virtually no one else but Kylo could have possibly pulled off. If Luke confronted Snoke there would be no surprise. Snoke would clearly know what Luke was there for. Thus Luke wouldn't be able to bisect him without a second thought. Its not a comparable situation. Snoke's death as it happens reflects on nothing about Luke's exile, positive or negative.
    Like Palpatine and so many others before him, Snoke committed the fatal villain mistake: he believed in his own invincibility.

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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    Palpatine saw Vader as a crippled cyborg who didn't have the means to challenge him. Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Then his duty as Sith Lord would have been to kill Vader and replace him with somebody worthy of the title and able to do perform his duty of replacing his Master. Immediately, not 20 years later when you discover Skywalker Jr. is still alive after all.

    Was he? The guy got himself installed as Chancellor in TPM and then ruled the galaxy for 40+ years, while wiping out the Jedi (A few escaped but they were driven into hiding). That's not too shabby, imo.
    He was a pretty great Darksider, but a really lousy Sith.
    He was the last Sith. He is the guy most responsible for there no longer being any Sith at all. Because he failed to make his apprentice and eventual replacement a priority. His apprentice was too weak, and he knew it and liked it that way. Bad Sith.
    Last edited by Carabas; 01-09-2018 at 02:27 PM.

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