For fans who have seen THE LAST JEDI only: opinion on Luke Skywalker

[Sacred Knight]

Indeed he wouldn't.

We are talking about the man who believed there was still good even in a despicable person such as Vader. But in the last joke they would have us believe that this man would murder his own nephew, during his sleep no less, just because he was a bit edgy.

Yeah, brilliant. Truly a masterpiece of writing.

They would not have us believe he'd murder his own nephew. Because, well, he didn't murder his own nephew. He didn't even try. The movie suggested he had a passing dark thought that lasted literally only a second and he came to his senses. Problem was that one second of a passing dark thought had major consequences.

There's at least the argument to be made about Luke's isolationist behavior. I get that. I subscribe to some of it. But this never had a leg to stand on and still doesn't. It actually fits his character. The temptation and brief touching of darkness only to relent. Its happened before. And to squash a common rebuttal immediately, "He's older now and should have learned his lesson" doesn't work. Because that is not how the dark side of the Force works. A Jedi doesn't just "learn his lesson" from one temptation and that's it. Even the most dedicated Knight has to always be vigilant to not let it creep in, all the time. There is no point of immunity. That's just one of the realities in this mythos of utilizing the Force.

[Carabas]

Luke Skywalker would never abandon his friends.

In Lucas's original ending for Return Of The Jedi, Luke abandoned his friends to go off and do his own thing.

[Sacred Knight]

Lucas also planned on killing Luke if he got around to his version of a sequel trilogy. In IX, not VIII, but he still would've died nonetheless. Its actually kinda amusing in that aspect, that everyone saying Johnson ruined the character yet in in some very important key ways he actually took directly from the creator of said character's plans.

That doesn't mean its not okay to not like Luke's direction Whether Lucas did it or someone else, if you didn't like it you didn't like it. But all too often people take their own personal offense and try and pass it as offensive to someone with at least the allure of more authority than them, to make their personal offense seem more factual and less opinionated.

[Tugger]

I thought Luke was one of the best things about the film. I really enjoyed his interactions with Rey & Yoda and particularly the climatic stand-off with Kylo Ren.

Top performance from Mark Hamill.

[Güicho]

Horrible, complete betrayal of the character, by modern developers who don't actually like Star Wars and the story it told, but just want to "fix" what they saw as wrong about it. Not actually developing the characters, but forsaking them.

Luke Skywalker was a character from start to finish driven by his own vision, and hope, who never followed or became a servant to the strict dogma of the Jedi, and instead always chose his own path, it's what defined him. (see his premature departure from Dagobah, see his telling Ben he refuses to kill his own father, cause he recognizes there is still hope even in him). That defines Luke. And in so doing, Luke defined what it was for the Jedi to survive, and one day return (we are lead to imagine).
It's why he is a hero, fraught with failures, missteps, yet being true to himself he survives his ordeal, and in so doing changes those around him, and as told, has much to pass on to the next gen.

At his core, he recognized, and accepted both halves (dark and light) of himself (within his father and family), recognized what he was (see his failure in the tree-cave vision), and facing what he learns is his father, recognized what he can become, now symbolized through his lost hand.
With that failure, that experience, that knowledge, now re-purposed as strength, he was inevitably able, and willing to switch off his saber and die if he had to, before ever surrendering or becoming- a hopeless slave; to anger, darkness, and worst fear.
He recognized it was a part of him, it would not however control or drive him as it did his father, hence he achieved the Return of the Jedi.
That is Luke.

Through this incredible act (which his mentors and his fallen father could never imagine), Luke was able to not only forever transform himself, but reveal the means to even find redemption for his own fallen father and family, in who Luke never lost hope.
With that hope, and strength he brought about the return of the Jedi (in himself), and ....what would follow.
That is our hero.

So where is that character for Disney?

The new Luke character is a sniveling piece of crap, fear-filled, coward, consumed by loss of hope/hopelessness, and an absolute slave to fear.
The opposite of everything we know he became.
Instead of what we know are his true instincts; he is now a slave to supposed religious text and dogma he never needed, and a written path he never once blindly followed before.
Where before he instinctively came to embody what it was to be a Jedi by being true to himself, finding and walking his own path. Now he slavishly protects some old text, that never helped or defined him.
Where before he thrived on hope, rushing towards those who need him, and seeing and bringing out the good in others. Now he lives hiding in shame, fear, without hope in anyone, or anything, and afraid to confront what lays before him, while others need him. He hides in cowardice.

For a supposed vision and act (we are told) of such inexplicable, absolute hopeless cowardice, and weak blind surrender to fear, against his own, against everything he was, against everything he had become.
It betrays every fiber of what we know are his instincts, his experience, what he learned, who he became, and the path he walked, it betrays absolutely everything that defined him.

It's not possibly the same character.

And Mark Hamill in portraying him knew this.
So much that although he did his job, he couldn't help but express the truth - "'I pretty much fundamentally disagree with every choice you've made for this character."
I remember those pre-release awkward interviews with Hamill, where he'd repeat that, and thinking what a weird thing to say about an upcoming movie you are in, he's just kidding around and being eccentric, but nobody would ever react or laugh or comment back to what he said. It was all just awkward silence and creepy grins from Kennedy and Johnson.
I actually had no idea how serious and truthful he was being, and what absolute creeps they were being. LOL!

[Moon Ronin]

In Lucas's original ending for Return Of The Jedi, Luke abandoned his friends to go off and do his own thing.

But he scraped that Idea. The "Lucas original plan" arguments are not great ones.. One, what that Luke and Leia were not brother and sister and that Luke twin sister was some space pirate in a different galaxy that going to find her was Lukes "own thing". These Ideas were scraped because of many reason some being that it was out of character.

[ChrisIII]

I'm not sure if that was Lucas's plan as much as Kurtz's, in that they intended to stretch the saga through four more episodes, but due to Kurtz leaving and perhaps Lucas's marriage woes, they decided to 'wrap it up' with ROTJ, with some of the ideas (such as Luke confronting the Emperor and meeting his sister) originally intended for the sequel trilogy kind of compressed into the film.

It's possible Disney or Abrams was partially inspired by the original ROTJ plot: Han dead, Luke in self-exile (although perhaps due to different reasons rather than screwing up), and Leia in charge of the rebellion.

[Moon Ronin]

I'm not sure if that was Lucas's plan as much as Kurtz's, in that they intended to stretch the saga through four more episodes, but due to Kurtz leaving and perhaps Lucas's marriage woes, they decided to 'wrap it up' with ROTJ, with some of the ideas (such as Luke confronting the Emperor and meeting his sister) originally intended for the sequel trilogy kind of compressed into the film.

It's possible Disney or Abrams was partially inspired by the original ROTJ plot: Han dead, Luke in self-exile (although perhaps due to different reasons rather than screwing up), and Leia in charge of the rebellion.

Toys... Lucas was driven by more than movie tickets. Kurtz even said that one of the big reasons that he and Lucas split was due to the changes Lucas put in to ROTJ in respect to what it would do to merchandise. Lucas consulted child phycologists, and market professionals before his changes, because yes it may have been a great ending but in the end would have hurt sales outside the movie which was the real cash cow. It is ironic that Disney took something that Lucas and the fans made almost self marketable and then disenfranchised that market with TLJ. TFA came out and were the top selling toys, Rogue one came out and were the top selling toys, TFA came out and was beat out by Nerf and Pokémon. And SOLO seems to be a caustically as well. Nerf and Pokémon did nothing different that year to make them special. Johnson created something that was not marketable outside of the movie and that is far contrast from the Star Wars of the past. That's not mentioning that the writing was sup-par and story telling was horrible to boot to a point that even Mark Hamill him self said "He's not my Luke Skywalker".

I do believe that Abrams was greatly inspired by the original ROTJ plot.

Han killed in a Imperial base raid - Han killed in the Starkiller Base raid
Leia in charge of the rebellion against what is left of the Empire - Leia in charge of the resistance against the rising in the First Order
Luke walking into the sunset all cowboy style to a self reflect - Luke gone for some mysterious reason (I'm sure that Abrams had different story behind his absence but we got what Johnson put out)

Why it worked and was marketable outside the movie for TFA and would not have been for ROTJ? Abrams brought in Poe, Finn, Rey and, that loveable BB-8. It was a transition with the original plan for ROTJ in mind and a new beginning with brand new people with a whole set up of marketability. Johnson took every thing marketable and did nothing with it; Captain Phasma- Dead and no real good development before hand, Snoke? Yeah the talk of TFA touted by Abrams and Disney and the biggest bad to ever walk the galaxy. -Dead and not just dead, but boring dead... And where the hell are the Knights of Ren? Another Carrot dangled in our face that was not even looked at by Johnson and all 3 very marketable. That is just the villains, he did crap all with the heroes too. Look I'm Poe Leia's most trusted agent and I have no military strategic planning capabilities what so ever I just like to shoot things and make them go boom. How did he ever get in charge of a flight wing in the first place? And I found it odd that Leia couldn't call the entire bombing fleet back on her own she had to go through Poe to do so... Why?

As for Luke I agree with Mark Hamill's take. Luke may take some time to reflect but he would not run and hide; ANH Luke - We have to save her, ESB Luke - I have to save my friends even though its a trap, ROTJ Luke- I must face my father and I know there is good in him and I can save him, TFA Luke - universe hide and seek champ?, and TLJ Luke (deep breath) I have to run and hide from my mistake of thinking about killing my nephew because he might have become a bad guy so now the Jedi Order most end so that the force can be free or some crap like that.

One, this means Luke is really stupid. With Snoke, Ben and, the Knights or Ren (I'm a poet) the force is still being used so it's not free or what have you. The Jedi have by appearance been dead for almost a generation and it really doesn't seem like the universe is a better place for it, so there is that. Also Johnson showed how dumb Luke is with Broom Boy at the end or even Rey herself. What is the consequence of having untrained force users out there and the draw to used that power for dark reasons- Snoke and the Knights of of Ren maybe? Johnson made Luke in not only a coward who runs from his problems in hopes that they will just go away in time if he does nothing, but to a completely stupid one that milks sea cows and drinks it... Its sad and I hope that Abrams can put out this dumpster fire

[ChrisIII]

Yeah, what happened with Phasma was a bit weird. Kathleen Kennedy sort of built her up like this big thing, and there were of course the novel and comic series released prior to TLJ, making you think that maybe she'd have a lot to do in the movie....but nope.

Lucas did something similar with Mace Windu in the lead-up to AOTC, saying to fans disappointed that Samuel L. Jackson was sitting in a chair for his screen time that the character would have much more screen time and action in the next two films. Although Mace was still not the greatest character, I think he certainly did deliver on that promise-Mace's death is pretty much the critical moment, after all, when Anakin went dark.

[Moon Ronin]

Yeah, what happened with Phasma was a bit weird. Kathleen Kennedy sort of built her up like this big thing, and there were of course the novel and comic series released prior to TLJ, making you think that maybe she'd have a lot to do in the movie....but nope.

Lucas did something similar with Mace Windu in the lead-up to AOTC, saying to fans disappointed that Samuel L. Jackson was sitting in a chair for his screen time that the character would have much more screen time and action in the next two films. Although Mace was still not the greatest character, I think he certainly did deliver on that promise-Mace's death is pretty much the critical moment, after all, when Anakin went dark.

Mace's quick dispatch of Jango in AOTC after his fight with Obi-Wan and the number of Jedi that he took down in the Battle of Geonosis set him up as one of the most bad ass Jedi there is. His attitude toward Anakin in ROTS "Take a seat" and his death were huge parts in the turning of Skywalker. I always thought that the prequels were awesome stories but suffered from subpar directing and story telling. Mace may not have come off that well on screen but I think that he was a pivotal part of the story.

[ChrisIII]

There is a bit of an issue I think with Mace's characterization that felt kind of inconsistent. In TPM and ROTS he's very skeptical of Anakin, but in AOTC he's pretty much a supporter of Anakin, while Obi-Wan is the one who doubts (This is also seen in a deleted scene).

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

I've thought long and hard about it and I've come to a simple conclusion. I did not like this version of Luke. His mistake is not understandable. It doesn't matter how long the moment was fleeting shadow or not it happened. IMO it showed a Luke lacking one of his most basic traits his compassion.

I think all the praise this portrayal gets for humanizing Luke is undeserved. If you ask me Luke was much more human in the OT. I think if anything he would want to save his nephew more than anything. Old man Luke seems apathetic to everything but his own self pity until Yoda knocks him on the head.

[godisawesome]

I feel like I should add two things that help make my feelings on Luke in TLJ complicated, even beyond the basic arg7ment about whether or not he’s in character.

On the one hand, Luke is by far the best written part of TLJ, with a storyline that exploits Hamill’s talents as an actor to its fullest extent. Now, that’s not quite a praise: I don’t think any of the other characters are being written well at all in TLJ, with story arcs plagued by narrative short-cuts (Holdo, Poe), lack of any kind of perspective for events from TFA (Rey), or simple ignorance and waste of potential or backstory (Finn, Kylo.) Luke’ story has some very debatable characterization choices, some dubious objectives and central theses.

...But if you go with the flow of the story, if you follow Rian Johnson’s creative decisions and accept them, you’re in for a treat.

BUT!

Structurally speaking, this was not how Luke should have been used. I don’t mean anything about the depths of his despair, or any of his characterization elements here. I mean in the way the film uses him, puts focus on him, and accidentally supplants Rey as the lead character in the “Part II” entry of the ST, and in how Rey doesn’t really get anything out of her association with him, kind of handicapping her progression as the ST main hero, and in how Kylo demonstrates really get anything out of either, since when Luke steals the spotlight for the finale from Rey on Crait, he juts humiliates a villain who the film has done no favors in his role as an antagonist.

Han in TFA was ultimately used to “give the rub” to the new ST characters: he established a fun rapport with both Finn and Rey, acted a bit like Finn’s mentor and became a substitute father figure to Rey, basically gave them his “seal of approval,” then was killed so that the audience would have a greater hatred of Kylo as well as a greater understanding of his strengths and weaknesses. He never came close to hijacking the film from the newbies, or having his characterization make such a splash it overwhelmed the new cast as the main attraction, and ultimately left the film in the new characters’ hands.

Rian Johnson’s take on Luke, regardless of whether or not you accepted his characterization, consumed so much more time and importance from the plot that Finn lost his position as the male lead, and because of deficiences in Rey’s story and Act IV of TLJ deciding to put its focus on Luke, basically usurping Rey’s lead role and leaving her destitute of momentum going in IX.

[Sacred Knight]

I've thought long and hard about it and I've come to a simple conclusion. I did not like this version of Luke. His mistake is not understandable. It doesn't matter how long the moment was fleeting shadow or not it happened. IMO it showed a Luke lacking one of his most basic traits his compassion.

I think all the praise this portrayal gets for humanizing Luke is undeserved. If you ask me Luke was much more human in the OT. I think if anything he would want to save his nephew more than anything. Old man Luke seems apathetic to everything but his own self pity until Yoda knocks him on the head.

I disagree. The fact it was fleeting and the fact it didn't happen at all matters a ton in this particular mythos. All because of what the rules of the Force and the Dark Side are. It makes the specifics of the situation of utmost importance. Luke is compassionate but he's also a wielder of the Force. That in of itself is dangerous, for the entire life of said Jedi. ALL Jedi. Fleeting moments of darkness can, and do often, happen. And its how you react to it that matters most. There is just simply no such thing of it never happening though. This is simply the rules of what the Force is in this mythos. To me saying that it doesn't matter that he repressed the darkness before it took hold, that he shouldn't have had the feeling in the first place, would be akin to saying that it didn't matter that Luke relented from killing his father in ROTJ, that this scene was still a betrayal of his character because he still maimed his father in anger first. And that's not true either.

My problem with Luke in the film was what he did afterwards. Not cutting himself off from the Force or leaving. Isolating himself is a cool parallel to Yoda and Obi-Wan, and cutting himself off from the Force because of the failure of the Old Ways would have been a fascinating exploration, worth more more than just the small mentioning of Sidious' overthrowing of the Republic. Because he's absolutely right to feel that way. But giving up and wanting to die I had a problem with. Yoda and Obi-Wan became hermits but it was for a greater purpose. It should have been the same for Luke; he should have been isolated for a purpose to still try help, with his stubbornness coming in the form that he wasn't willing to use the Force anymore to do it. Part of Rey's arc then would be trying to get through to him that he needed to be a Jedi again to do that to the best of his ability, not trying to convince him to be of help at all and not just wither and die. That would have been a far better journey for the character.

[MASTER-OF-SUPRISE]

I disagree. The fact it was fleeting and the fact it didn't happen at all matters a ton in this particular mythos. All because of what the rules of the Force and the Dark Side are. It makes the specifics of the situation of utmost importance. Luke is compassionate but he's also a wielder of the Force. That in of itself is dangerous, for the entire life of said Jedi. ALL Jedi. Fleeting moments of darkness can, and do often, happen. And its how you react to it that matters most. There is just simply no such thing of it never happening though. This is simply the rules of what the Force is in this mythos. To me saying that it doesn't matter that he repressed the darkness before it took hold, that he shouldn't have had the feeling in the first place, would be akin to saying that it didn't matter that Luke relented from killing his father in ROTJ, that this scene was still a betrayal of his character because he still maimed his father in anger first. And that's not true either.

My problem with Luke in the film was what he did afterwards. Not cutting himself off from the Force or leaving. Isolating himself is a cool parallel to Yoda and Obi-Wan, and cutting himself off from the Force because of the failure of the Old Ways would have been a fascinating exploration, worth more more than just the small mentioning of Sidious' overthrowing of the Republic. Because he's absolutely right to feel that way. But giving up and wanting to die I had a problem with. Yoda and Obi-Wan became hermits but it was for a greater purpose. It should have been the same for Luke; he should have been isolated for a purpose to still try help, with his stubbornness coming in the form that he wasn't willing to use the Force anymore to do it. Part of Rey's arc then would be trying to get through to him that he needed to be a Jedi again to do that to the best of his ability, not trying to convince him to be of help at all and not just wither and die. That would have been a far better journey for the character.

See for me I think there's a galaxy of differences between him unleashing on Vader and the tent scene. The biggest one being That Vader was a massive war criminal. Ben had not actually done anything wrong yet. In fact Rey even calls him out on this. I do agree that it would've been better if he had been isolated for a purpose. Him trying to solve the problem without using the force is an interesting idea.