The Chase and Finn's Subplot: *Objectively* the weak link in TLJ?

[Carabas]

Sooo...does anyone miss how Lucas or Abrams plotted things?

Eh, hell no?

[Cel]

Eh, hell no?

So all of the Star Wars movies have essentially sucked storywise?

[Carabas]

So all of the Star Wars movies have essentially sucked storywise?

It's not a coincidence that most people's favourite Star Wars movie was the one that was made when Lucas was nowhere near the set for most of shooting but off with Spielberg making Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

And the Prequels, which are pretty much pure and undiluted Lucas goodness, much more than any OT movie, are... less than average doesn't quite cover it.

[Cel]

It's not a coincidence that most people's favourite Star Wars movie was the one that was made when Lucas was nowhere near the set for most of shooting but off with Spielberg making Raiders Of The Lost Ark.

But the story was still his though.

[choptop]

Sooo...does anyone miss how Lucas or Abrams plotted things?

Luca's yes Abrams not so much.

[godisawesome]

But the story was still his though.

...Kind of. ESB wound up with a story that was a Kershner, Kasdan, and Lucas collaboration; Lucas crafted the first few drafts of the story, then Kasdan and Kershner forged it into the end product all the way through production, including both the "I know" response from Han and the Vader reveal (which did include Lucas at least in the approval stage).

I'd say the best Star Wars films are the ones with the most collaboration in the creative process; ANH had a Lucas still young enough to let his wife effectively rewrite the ending through editing, and ROTJ had Lucas again with Kasdan. And Kasdan was again involved in Abrams's work on TFA.

I'd say it may be that Kasdan is the closest you get to a quality control creator in Star Wars. I *do* think that Johnson should have had someone working on the script with him; he's a skilled writer and an awesome director, but again, I think the particular plotlines we're talking about here are the weak link of the film, having a lot of little mistakes that compile to make a slow part of the film's pacing also aggravating.

[Carabas]

But the story was still his though.

He didn't plot it though. He didn't write one letter of the actual screenplay.

[Cel]

He didn't plot it though. He didn't write one letter of the actual screenplay.

We're not talking about the screenplay, but the actual story. Lucas was still the driving force behind it, no pun intended.

[ChrisIII]

AOTC and ROTS also had co-writers (sort of); AOTC had Johnathan Hales, and Tom Stoppard did some script-doctoring on III. Appparentally Carrie Fisher also was brought in to rewrite some of her "mom's" dialogue in TPM, although it's unclear to what extent.

[Carabas]

We're not talking about the screenplay, but the actual story. Lucas was still the driving force behind it, no pun intended.

Guys who did an outline somebody else then wrote a screen play on, those guys are NOT a driving force of anything when making a movie. The director is.

Apparently Vader being Anakin wasn't even Lucas's idea.

[Cel]

Guys who did an outline somebody else then wrote a screen play on, those guys are NOT a driving force of anything when making a movie. The director is.

Actually, as both lead writer and executive producer, Lucas definitely WAS the driving force in this case. The director brought the finished version to big screen, but he was carrying out what Lucas wanted. Nothing happened in that movie without Lucas' approval.

Apparently Vader being Anakin wasn't even Lucas's idea.

That's a fan myth. In Lucas' earliest drafts of the story, Luke's father and Darth Vader were indeed meant to be separate characters, but in a later draft, Lucas decided to put in the twist that they were one and the same. It was then that Lucas brought in others to produce a finished script with that new plot point in place.

[Carabas]

Actually, as both lead writer and executive producer, Lucas definitely WAS the driving force in this case. The director brought the finished version to big screen, but he was carrying out what Lucas wanted. Nothing happened in that movie without Lucas' approval.

In theory.
In practice, in the specific case of The Empire Strikes Back George Lucas was on another continent for Raiders Of The Lost Ark. He was almost entirely absent from shooting. He had abdicated his creative controlling power to his director and other producers. and it shows in the final product.

[Cel]

In theory.

Not in theory, but in reality. Lucas was almost unique in having that kind of control.

In practice, in the specific case of The Empire Strikes Back George Lucas was on another continent for Raiders Of The Lost Ark. He was almost entirely absent from shooting. He had abdicated his creative controlling power to his director and other producers. and it shows in the final product.

Not entirely true. Lucas simply stepped back into a more supervisory role during the production of Episode V, but he didn't abdicate his creative controlling power at all. As executive producer, he was still the boss, and he still had final say in the final product. If there was something that he didn't like, it wouldn't have made it in the film.

[Carabas]

Not in theory, but in reality. Lucas was almost unique in having that kind of control.

Not entirely true. Lucas simply stepped back into a more supervisory role during the production of Episode V, but he didn't abdicate his creative controlling power at all. As executive producer, he was still the boss, and he still had final say in the final product. If there was something that he didn't like, it wouldn't have made it in the film.

A boss who is effectively on vacation and off making another movie that he was paying a lot more attention to.

[Cel]

A boss who is effectively on vacation and off making another movie that he was paying a lot more attention to.

Nah, he was able to do both. Many of the big name executive producers do juggle more than one film at a time. They leave the day-to-day operations to others, but watch the dailies, and intervene only when there's something they think isn't right.