The Sexism of Grand Design

[Benjy]

-pretty sure it was Magneto's attack on Cape Citadel not Namor's attack on the surface world that really kicked up mutant hysteria(Cyke helped with his blast being seen on live news destroying a construction site). (Namor is principally an Atlantean, and it was an Atlantean army, not mutants per say, though Namor is a mutant too)

-Nor was Brian Xavier/Kurt Marko involved in a relief effort to stop Namor's attack. Brian Xavier/Kurt Marko were involved with a Manhattan Project-like scenario, though and that is attributed as the source of Charles' mutation(but he doesn't go bald until late teens, he has hair as a young child and even when he first manifests).

Hi guys!

I'm new here (but not to comics, been reading them for 20+ years now) and I have a question about Grand Design. I agree with yogaflame's statements but when did Namor attack New-York and left it submerged for 50 days? Wikipedia has a reference to him threatening to do so but not to him actually doing it.

Everett's antihero would eventually battle Carl Burgos' android superhero, the Human Torch, when in 1940 Namor threatened to sink the island of Manhattan underneath a tidal wave.

I also read a few synopses from Wikia for Marvel Mystery Comics Vol 1 and there is no indication that Namor did indeed submerge New York.

[ButterRum]

Ugh, does Emma appear in this at all?

[Mike_Murdock]

She'll probably appear in Issue 3 would be my guess. They're doing two issues, taking a break, doing two more, etc. I don't see any reason for Emma to appear in the pre-history where they've barely touched on the Hellfire Club.

ETA: People do realize that there will be more than one issue of this, right? And that, as we move out of the silver age, there will be more female characters?

[PrezValentine]

She'll probably appear in Issue 3 would be my guess. They're doing two issues, taking a break, doing two more, etc. I don't see any reason for Emma to appear in the pre-history where they've barely touched on the Hellfire Club.

ETA: People do realize that there will be more than one issue of this, right? And that, as we move out of the silver age, there will be more female characters?

I don't think people even realize this is Piskor's work and Marvel is just letting him do whatever he wants with the parts he likes. Hell, people are acting like is retconning stuff when he was very clear that he is not but Marvel can use what he writes as canon if they feel like it. Seems like the love for chronology has been trumping logic and enjoyment of the book around these parts.

[Uncanny X-Man]

I don't think people even realize this is Piskor's work and Marvel is just letting him do whatever he wants with the parts he likes. Hell, people are acting like is retconning stuff when he was very clear that he is not but Marvel can use what he writes as canon if they feel like it. Seems like the love for chronology has been trumping logic and enjoyment of the book around these parts.

Precisely. Every time there's a retelling of the X-Men's origins there's bound to be some changes as well, otherwise one might just re-read Lee & Kirby instead. Just as Joe Casey's Children of the Atom didn't become any more "canon" than Lee & Kirby, it's up to subsequent writers and editors to decide what to use from Grand Design, if anything. Frankly, I don't think this project is mainstream enough for anything to be used in the future, so you can enjoy it for what it is rather than complaining it's not a verbatim of 50 years of stories condensed into 6 issues.

[Triniking1234]

Thank you for the well articulated and comprehensive round up yogaflame! Ignorance seems to something of an issue on this forum so I hope this helps those “fans” who’ve never heard of notable characters like Tessa, Astra and Amelia Voght.

yogaflame's recap was on point but it still doesn't support your original claim that those characters are important to the mythos.

[MyriVerse]

Hi guys!

I'm new here (but not to comics, been reading them for 20+ years now) and I have a question about Grand Design. I agree with yogaflame's statements but when did Namor attack New-York and left it submerged for 50 days? Wikipedia has a reference to him threatening to do so but not to him actually doing it.

I also read a few synopses from Wikia for Marvel Mystery Comics Vol 1 and there is no indication that Namor did indeed submerge New York.

Human Torch Comics #5 in 1941 has him actually doing it.

[PrezValentine]

Precisely. Every time there's a retelling of the X-Men's origins there's bound to be some changes as well, otherwise one might just re-read Lee & Kirby instead. Just as Joe Casey's Children of the Atom didn't become any more "canon" than Lee & Kirby, it's up to subsequent writers and editors to decide what to use from Grand Design, if anything. Frankly, I don't think this project is mainstream enough for anything to be used in the future, so you can enjoy it for what it is rather than complaining it's not a verbatim of 50 years of stories condensed into 6 issues.

Precisely. It's not like Grand Design removes anything from continuity. It's just one way for an artist, who is also a fan, to create his own version of the X-Men mythos. For me the fact that it's an unadultered vision of an artist matters waaaay more than if it fits or not with established continuity. Piskor even said that he hopes he's opening a door so other artists/writers can do this kind of stuff to other characters with the same amount of freedom he has. People just want something to complain about (which goes back to the immortal joke that X-Fans will A L W A Y S find stuff to complain about. You can see there was no spoiler/discussion thread for this book, just this here outright calling it sexist).

[Uncanny X-Man]

Precisely. It's not like Grand Design removes anything from continuity. It's just one way for an artist, who is also a fan, to create his own version of the X-Men mythos. For me the fact that it's an unadultered vision of an artist matters waaaay more than if it fits or not with established continuity. Piskor even said that he hopes he's opening a door so other artists/writers can do this kind of stuff to other characters with the same amount of freedom he has. People just want something to complain about (which goes back to the immortal joke that X-Fans will A L W A Y S find stuff to complain about. You can see there was no spoiler/discussion thread for this book, just this here outright calling it sexist).

I'm actually amazed at just HOW MUCH Piskor has crammed into this first issue. All retellings of these stories tend to be pretty basic so I really didn't expect to see Namor, Sinister, the Phoenix Force and the stuff from Classic X-Men. Can't wait to see what happens when he gets to the 80s which are already choke-full of characters and complexity to begin with.

[PrezValentine]

I'm actually amazed at just HOW MUCH Piskor has crammed into this first issue. All retellings of these stories tend to be pretty basic so I really didn't expect to see Namor, Sinister, the Phoenix Force and the stuff from Classic X-Men. Can't wait to see what happens when he gets to the 80s which are already choke-full of characters and complexity to begin with.

I know, right? I never would think we would see so much in just this one issue. Then again, he managed to actually use all the space he had in a way that reading it was not tiresome or anything, but actually quite pleasing. It was the first time in so long that I was actually afraid of finishing an issue and the wait for the next one! I'm really interested in seeing how he'll handle stuff like the ANAD team, Dark Phoenix and Mutant Massacre. I hope it will be a fun ride like the first one or even better.

[Benjy]

Human Torch Comics #5 in 1941 has him actually doing it.

Thanks for the info MyriVerse!

PS: damn, it's written on the second to last page, I feel dumb for not finishing the comic before asking the question