X-Men Gold letter: "Kittylossus is retrograde and problematic"

[cranger]

where was her age stated?

Claremont established her as 15 in Excalibur #24(?) published in 1990. He was pretty consistent with her age, so a story that picks up from the end of 1991 would not have her turned 16 yet.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

I would believe David Ishima was older (but only a date) and definitely a crush on Alistair Stuart.

If the book itself never said what her age was, I don't know if it should just be assumed she was being written as fifteen.

[Maestroneto]

While I've got nothing against the relationship, or Kitty in general, I did always feel like their relationship was entirely *her* thing, and that he was kind of just dragged (not unwillingly) there.

She made the choices, pretty much every step of the way, whether they were together or not, and Piotr didn't really seem to grow any relationship confidence until Whedon's run (and now he's back to being a bookend, it seems, with little or no agency of his own, although that could be a sign of him not being hugely ambitious, in matters of romance, or just life in general, and being a low-key sort of guy who has to be chased down and caught, or roped into something, rather than someone who's more pro-active).

And Kurt and Rachel, IMO, is way less 'out of left field' than some other X-couples, like Emma and Scott was initially. They've got history apart from the rest of the team (other than Kitty), which is more than Betsy and Warren can say, or Magneto and Rogue, back in the day, or Sentry and any of his imaginary girlfriends that I'm pretending never happened.

Colossus was chasing Kitty all throughout the first 10 issues of Gold, even after she said no multiple times.

[Vegan Daddy]

Colossus was chasing Kitty all throughout the first 10 issues of Gold, even after she said no multiple times.

He asked her if she wanted Pizza.

[Technopriest]

You're downplaying things a bit much here. They never had a physical relationship pre-Whedon, but there was more going on there than just Colossus tolerating Kitty's crush while nursing his own. Colossus and Kitty did date after the incident with the Brood; we see at least one where they're chaperoned by an older couple (UXM 177) and one where they're not in (X-Men/Alpha Flight v. 2). Colossus spoke wistfully to Logan on how he and Kitty could be starting a family together if they were back in Russia. And, of course, there was the post-Secret Wars break-up speech and all the emotional fallout from that; you don't break up with someone you don't have a romance with. Implying there's nothing creepy in all of this because Colossus didn't initiate the relationship also absolves him of responsibility for his part in it; just because the initiating party is underage does not make it OK for the adult to just go along with it, and Colossus was at least 18 (more likely 19 since he was old enough to legally drink in New York in '84), when Kitty was 14. He should have gently told her the age difference was inappropriate the first time she expressed romantic interest (such as when she was obviously crushing), not just when she was asking him to take her virginity.

He is Rusian, I am not really aware about what was particularly acceptable in '80s Siberia but to Colossus it probably didn't seem to be really that uncommon to go on a date with a 14 year old, considering that himself was only 18-19 at the time. In any case, I never liked them together, I am not a fan of the couple and I would prefer if they both moved on as characters, especially since I feel they are not a healthy relationship.

[Paleo_Rage]

As messy as Kitty and Pete v1, v2 ,v3 and now Pete v1.1 is.. He should have wrote it reflecting on prior experiences. I mean did he read Excalibur when Pete Wisdom and Kitty had a relationship and how Piotr reacted. Beating Pete wisdom to a pulp and Piotr emotional instability should have been addressed and should make both characters weary of a new relationship with each other. I look forward to a time when mediocre writing is not celebrated.

[stormphoenix]

Kitty don Stole my Man!......lol

[Dum Dum Dugan]

As messy as Kitty and Pete v1, v2 ,v3 and now Pete v1.1 is.. He should have wrote it reflecting on prior experiences. I mean did he read Excalibur when Pete Wisdom and Kitty had a relationship and how Piotr reacted. Beating Pete wisdom to a pulp and Piotr emotional instability should have been addressed and should make both characters weary of a new relationship with each other. I look forward to a time when mediocre writing is not celebrated.

It would be pretty random to just bring that up again. It'd be like having Peter and MJ discuss the time he accidentally backhanded her into a wall while she was pregnant during the clone saga.

[Mackandal]

I think people should be focusing on Claremont's obsession with Kitty being attracted to older men. Who knows where the Kitty/Colossus relationship would have gone if Shooter didn't interfere

Probably with them drifting apart and her going out with Doug, as was being built up.

[Maestroneto]

As messy as Kitty and Pete v1, v2 ,v3 and now Pete v1.1 is.. He should have wrote it reflecting on prior experiences. I mean did he read Excalibur when Pete Wisdom and Kitty had a relationship and how Piotr reacted. Beating Pete wisdom to a pulp and Piotr emotional instability should have been addressed and should make both characters weary of a new relationship with each other. I look forward to a time when mediocre writing is not celebrated.

He also tried to murder Kitty and Iceman during AvX.

[Harpsikord]

Claremont established her as 15 in Excalibur #24(?) published in 1990. He was pretty consistent with her age, so a story that picks up from the end of 1991 would not have her turned 16 yet.

She was also seventeen by the time she was in a relationship with Pete Wisdom though, and that was in the late nineties.

[Maestroneto]

She was also seventeen by the time she was in a relationship with Pete Wisdom though, and that was in the late nineties.

IIRC Claremont deaged her to 16 in the late '90s when he was ghostwriting for Alan Davis.

[Havok83]

She was also seventeen by the time she was in a relationship with Pete Wisdom though, and that was in the late nineties.

IIRC Claremont deaged her to 16 in the late '90s when he was ghostwriting for Alan Davis.

that wasnt the intent of the original writer. I beleieve Ellis wrote her as being at least 18 until Claremont did the deaging

[cranger]

that wasnt the intent of the original writer. I beleieve Ellis wrote her as being at least 18 until Claremont did the deaging

I'm not sure what was in Ellis' head and have seen people attribute comments to him but never seen them. While I don't doubt the words, if someone mentioned Kitty would have been 16 and Wisdom likely in his 30s that in the US this would be rather sketchy, what else would he have said?

As for Claremont, putting her at 'just 16' was obviously taking a shot at Marvel letting that relation play out, but he does put her at a proper 18 by 2002.

[Omnipitus]

That was a weird letter. And this has been an interesting thread. I have no problem with them together now. Just do not get Jason Aaron to take over the title when Guggs leaves. He will make people hate Colossus even more.