Better Silver Swan designs

[CRaymond]

:-) yeah I’d been watching Game of Thrones a LOT back then. You could argue it's an Anna & Elsa situation as well, or Beezus & Ramona. It's an archetypal relationship.

Parallels upon parallels: Diana is smart but she’s incredibly athletic as a child, as we’ve all seen in the movie. I want to set up a sisterhood where both aspire to be like thier hero and mentor, but the younger sister is more like younger Diana, and the elder sister is wiser (despite mental health) like an adult Diana. Diana’s never had sisters like the Sandsmark girls, so she’s fascinated seeing herself reflected at both ages in different manners.

When [Donna] appears, she’s like Vanessa... in that she never excelled at the athletic challenges the Amazons put her thru. She excelled instead at spellcraft... but that’s a bigger thread. In any case, Donna’s appearance requires nearly all of Diana’s time and effort, and Vanessa is a bit heartbroken that she’s left behind and never realized the potential Diana saw in her. So she graduates to college, and Donna goes to the Titans. All the while, the audience is like, Vanessa and Donna would be best friends if they’d just had the time to develop their own friendship.

Anyway, College life messes with Vanessa, and one of Diana’s rogues figures out there’s a connection between Nessie and the Amazons. A year later, Silver Swan emerges and necessitates Cassie becoming the new Wonder Girl to protect Gateway.

What I haven’t figured out is why/how a villain that would deduce the connection to Amazons thru Vanessa wouldn’t also follow it to Cassandra and her mother. How do you preserve thier secret identities? Details bleh.

******

Fixed it. I've already said how College messes with Vanessa, let's have her attend a Veronica Cale anti-Wonder Woman rally, like the hate speech rallies of Milo and Richard Spencer. She and other angry young men are kidnapped because the tech used to fuel the Swan cybertech runs on hatred. The boys all die in the process, but she persists because 1) she's crazy, and 2) she has legitimate intimate reasons. It's not that the villains know she's a Wonder Woman relation, but that she's a unique boiling point of hatred. It makes her victimization about HER and not Diana, that the kidnapping occurs because of Vanessa's mental health weakness.

"Silver Swan" becomes a commentary on the strength and corruption of hate speech on fragile worldviews, and how screaming hate is dangerous.

[WonderScott]

I think I prefer Vanessa as human and not a villainess (obviously I won’t be getting that.) Nessie was such an earnest teen, that I hate seeing her succumb to villainy.

I’d either make Helena Alexandros a creation of Ares, similar to her Silver Age origins (but with a new costume) or make her a Deathstroke-type mercenary individual who has amassed certain magical and mythical and technological and biological items/procedures to transform herself into the Silver Swan. I might have her tap/use Veronica Cale, Doctor Cyber, and Doctor Doris Zeul to assist her with the means for some of her metamorphosis.

[OBrianTallent]

I think I prefer Vanessa as human and not a villainess (obviously I won’t be getting that.) Nessie was such an earnest teen, that I hate seeing her succumb to villainy.

I’d either make Helena Alexandros a creation of Ares, similar to her Silver Age origins (but with a new costume) or make her a Deathstroke-type mercenary individual who has amassed certain magical and mythical and technological and biological items/procedures to transform herself into the Silver Swan. I might have her tap/use Veronica Cale, Doctor Cyber, and Doctor Doris Zeul to assist her with the means for some of her metamorphosis.

I really like your idea here. I'm not fond of using Vanessa either.

[CRaymond]

I'm not fond of using Vanessa either.

Would either of you explain why? I’m certainly not opposed to the need for Diana to have a wider, more difficult set of villains, but is it that Helena has a better personality/backstory/motivation/escape strategies? Is Vanessa too much of a victim in the Swan transformation? Is there an ideal fate for Vanessa that I’m not honoring in favor of exploiting dramatic conflict? What does the Helena incarnation represent as a recurring conflict?

[Agent Z]

The Silver Swan could be the personification of the themes of the Swan Lake ballet and a spirit of sorts that possesses people, usually young women or girls.

[CRaymond]

The Silver Swan could be the personification of the themes of the Swan Lake ballet and a spirit of sorts that possesses people, usually young women or girls.

Haha I like that. It doesn’t have the hardness and blood curdle of brainwash and surgery, but maybe it’s a plus to simplify it into a ghost possession fueled by madness and hatred.

[AmiMizuno]

Maybe that would make sense to have Helena ( or whoever is Silver Swan) from abused dancers. Or maybe something else more creepy. Helena made a Swan lake costume by the skins of her competitors. Her hate and the hate of the ghost turns the costume into the Silver Swan

[CRaymond]

But then, why hate Wonder Woman? Why does she recur as a villain?

Silver Swan needs a reason for her powers, a reason for her appearance, a reason for her name, a reason for her animosity toward Wonder Woman, and a reason to recur as a consistent villain.

[WonderScott]

Would either of you explain why? I’m certainly not opposed to the need for Diana to have a wider, more difficult set of villains, but is it that Helena has a better personality/backstory/motivation/escape strategies? Is Vanessa too much of a victim in the Swan transformation? Is there an ideal fate for Vanessa that I’m not honoring in favor of exploiting dramatic conflict? What does the Helena incarnation represent as a recurring conflict?

It's just a personal preference for me, based on Vanessa characterization in her initial stories in the Perez run. She was a pretty well developed and a real feeling character as a regular person - and I find some power in a character like that operating in Wonder Woman's world. She went through a lot of growth and challenges as a regular teen and a friend to Diana and I want her to have a happy ending. Her transformation into Silver Swan is a little cliche to me - not necessarily every character in Wonder Woman, Superman, or Batman's orbit needs to become superpowered or a vigilante. She's been lied to and had her mind altered for sure, but at her core Vanessa just doesn't seem that evil or angry if those compulsions were removed by let's say the lasso.

Helena was villainous from the get-go, but is otherwise a fairly blank slate - which gives some creative ground to develop her into something new and different to challenge Wonder Woman. I think that's why I favor her, as we've already seen the Vanessa turned Silver Swan story play out in her villainy and redemption a reality or two ago.

I don't think you're missing anything. It's just the types of stories we'd like to see with the characters. The betrayed friend vs friend storyline is a classic one, so there's merit to the story you'd like to tell with Vanessa.

[CRaymond]

Haha I'm a Perez guy, actually, and I actually have a soft spot for Valerie Beaudry. And I'm surprised no one's making a case for rehashing that story in the new continuity. I completely understand the sentiment toward Nessie. She was a great addition to the vol2 cast, and the supplanting of the Sandsmarks felt like a slap in our faces. I liked that Nessie was brought back as Swan, rather than retire her to Byrne's forced Limbo. Making her a crazy, hateful villain certainly sounds like I hate poor Nessie, but my goal was keep her as a recurring villain for Diana, Donna, and a specific arch-villain for Cassie.

I know nothing about the Helena Swan, so I'm disappointed to learn she's a blank slate. And moreso to learn she's another Greek Myth construct.

[AmiMizuno]

Using Gateway city people why not make it Helena or Valerie or both are mystical or alien or a mix of both mystical and alien species that are angry. They don’t like their real form. However, they see how their abilities are grander than their looks. They meet Diana at Holliday College. What should make them want to fight Diana? Just that she is lovely

Or just use Valrie's origin due to a science experiment. That her voice was because of nuclear radiation affected her voice.

[WonderScott]

Haha I'm a Perez guy, actually, and I actually have a soft spot for Valerie Beaudry. And I'm surprised no one's making a case for rehashing that story in the new continuity. I completely understand the sentiment toward Nessie. She was a great addition to the vol2 cast, and the supplanting of the Sandsmarks felt like a slap in our faces. I liked that Nessie was brought back as Swan, rather than retire her to Byrne's forced Limbo. Making her a crazy, hateful villain certainly sounds like I hate poor Nessie, but my goal was keep her as a recurring villain for Diana, Donna, and a specific arch-villain for Cassie.

I know nothing about the Helena Swan, so I'm disappointed to learn she's a blank slate. And moreso to learn she's another Greek Myth construct.

It might not be fair to say Helen was a total blank slate - she was written as a bitter, "homely" woman who found out she was a descendant of Zeus and Leda. Then was empowered and beautified by Mars in a deal that she had to destroy Wonder Woman.

It's an origin that have to be reworked for today's standards, but there's something there to broach as a sociopolitical commentary on beauty standards - something we still struggle with.

The Valerie Beaudry version tackled that subject fairly well for the 80s, but Valerie was more or less redeemed in the end making it difficult for her to be a reoccurring villainess. IIRC there was a heroic team mentioned that she joined later, but nothing came of it.

I'd kind of like Silver Swan (whoever she is) to remain a villain, since Diana has so few Bronze Age villain concepts.

[AmiMizuno]

The best way to maybe make Silver Swan remind a villain is to flesh out what her goals are. I mean I like the idea of her getting some of her powers by science experiments. Or she is an alien species or a mythical creatures or a mix

[Koriand'r]

I think in comic books you want to strike the right balance between preserving some of what all the past creators have contributed to a franchise and progressing with new designs to keep the franchise fresh.

The thing is, Gene Colan was one of the all-time greats of the comic book medium and it's quite a feather in the cap of Wonder Woman that he was a regular artist; yet, there's very little of what he contributed to Wonder Woman that has survived. It's Silver Swan and that's about it. So for the sake of keeping something of his work still present, it would be better to keep Gene's original design.

I completely agree, the reason we're still talking about the Silver Swan 35 years after her debut is because her original design and backstory were so good. It's sort of a shame how each new incarnation gets further and further away from them.

[AmiMizuno]

So should Helena be the Silver Swan ? If we add two of the common things the two silver swans did it for jealous and they were working for a focus that wanted Diana died. Why not Silver Swan hate Diana simply for stopping her. Going to a show I love. She could also control people with her tone and do things like black canary’s cry. She could be an experiment which Diana tried to fit that caused her swan song