B.P.R.D. Hell on Earth #124: Grind.

[thwhtGuardian]

That ending really knocked me on my ass. I don't want to spoil it for those who haven't read this yet, but wow, if you haven't prepared to be floored. BPRD has had some really melancholy beats before but I don't think anything tops this, and what's beautiful about it is that it involves a character that, up until this issue, we didn't even know. Being taken aback by Hellboy's death, or Abe's comma, well that's just to be expected as they are characters we've been following for 20 years now...but to feel the same way for random town guy #3? That takes some serious skill.

Also, I definitely think that was the fungus from pickins.

[The Lobster]

Well as much as I did enjoy the ending, after 124 issues of BPRD I pretty much knew it was coming - people outside the core group might as well be wearing red shirts. However that inkling of the ending only served to give the issue a greater sense of dread.

[thwhtGuardian]

Well as much as I did enjoy the ending, after 124 issues of BPRD I pretty much knew it was coming - people outside the core group might as well be wearing red shirts. However that inkling of the ending only served to give the issue a greater sense of dread.

Except in Star trek the red shirts never had any personality and you never cared if they died which is far from true here.

[The Lobster]

Except in Star trek the red shirts never had any personality and you never cared if they died which is far from true here.

Actually there was a really great TNG episode called Lower Decks that's from the perspective of proverbial red shirts which does make you care about some of them. I love those kinds of stories in long running series that give you an outside perspective of the main characters.

[Kirby101]

I agree with those who say this issue did a better job than the Abe series in portraying the everyday. But is the point of the Mignolaverse to show a slow death of our world and everyone in it. Is it suppose to be a depressingly bleak story where the characters are doing nothing more than spitting into the wind with no hope of changing a thing. If so, I wish they would get on with it and bring things to an end. At some point it all becomes pointless.
I have been with it from the beginning, but I am starting to think they took a very wrong turn. The variety and at times fun of the BPRD have been replaced by a grim sameness to what they do.
I would like to know they have an endgame and and haven't written themselves into a giant whole.

I like the individual issues, but the overall direction is troubling for me.

[Kees_L]

I like the individual issues, but the overall direction is troubling for me.

I personally think that for comics I have never read a more diverse yet totally cohesive wealth of character, adventure both as the most fleshed-out themology in comics, besides the Mignola world, as put forth in the many different titles and material from Hellboy to the BPRD, from Witchfinder to Lobster Johnson, from standalones or flashbacks to ongoings.

I don't think that most current comics or movies or sequential works would be serving up themology in the same vain, as Hellboy and the BPRD both seem much more like Pinocchio or Lovecraft in the sense that such themes as death or loss and morality are made to mean what such would in real life among real living people, more rather than elements that could be bent or conformed to in any way.

I'd say that there'd be much paradoxality and ambiguity to go along with these themes, but in essence loss or death or non-binaries to "good versus evil" is never abandoned in the stories, in the sense that 'what gets broken really stays broken'.

Much like how for instance Pinocchio is about a wooden puppet that wants to be a real person but isn't, with incorporating any themes such as death as an opposite to life, possibility to impossibility, as such presenting a truely lush and heartwarming tale being to do with anyone's lives.

http://www.encyclopedia.com: Since its original serialized publication in the Italian juvenile magazine Giornale per i bambini, Le Avventure di Pinocchio: La storia di un burattino (1883; The Adventures of Pinocchio: The Story of a Marionette) has emerged as one of the most iconic works of children's literature of all time. However, Collodi's original tale of a marionette child brought to life is significantly different from the Americanized version of Pinocchio that was made famous by the 1940 Walt Disney animated feature. Far darker and replete with recurring themes of metamorphosis, personal evolution, and the nature of good and evil, Collodi's Pinocchio is held as one of Italy's literary national treasures, with Nicolas J. Perella* arguing that, "no other work of Italian literature can be said to approach the popularity Pinocchio enjoys beyond Italy's linguistic frontiers."

(*Nicolas J. Perella: eminent scholar at the University of Berkeley California who I believe currently publishes much translated Italian works such as through Italica Press.)

I have hardly read the current Abe Sapien yet, as I usually only feel capable of reading or interpreting stuff once a story or arc would be fully available to me, as published and collected in full.
But in all of the arcs as yet I feel Abe is hardly an ordinary character as interacting at all, because he doesn't know what or who he is, he doesn't know if he'd be human or human-like and he can't even be sure whether there'd be much good in who he will have once been.

Abe has never ever as yet been sure of who or what he or Langdon Caul is, whether he wouldn't be just another privileged intruder ready to exploit whatever situation, ignorantly and destructively, as how any of the rich-man elitist cult-groups would mostly seem or appear to be. He sure doesn't look like anything being intended to exist, he doesn't even have a 'proper' name!

Stories have presented Abe as but conscientious and empathic and totally self-sacrificing, at least up until now.
I'd feel that it could well be that in light of him (A) getting shot almost dead both as (B) the getting caught up in what can only seem as an imminent and total destruction of the world (C) with possibly even a hand in such or at least not much of an opportunity to ever become who he'd really be (due to his physicality appearing less and less 'normal'), Abe would be in a crisis.
For this arc and possibly more arcs to come.

I don't think it likely that he would need more interaction or more of a smile here or there, not if the stories on the whole would be for fleshing out what themes they'd be to contain, in how they have always been nothing else than that.
I prefer such books to more popularised ones. I prefer Hellboy or Pinocchio over more popularized stuff such as ordinary superheroes or movies, because I prefer it when death and loss and endings would only really be meaning that with no conforming. But that's me.

I even don't consider such reading, be it Mignola or Lovecraft (or Dostojewski or Collodi or Kafka) as appearing any too bleak or hopeless or tragic or haunting at all. I laugh or at least smile for any of such stuff and it gives me hope as well as inspiration more rather than not. Twilight or Buffy or Stan Lee freaks me the hell out, but Mignola (et al) not so much .

[Joker]

I would like to know they have an endgame and and haven't written themselves into a giant whole.

They have an end game. They've said as much several times. You might not like the direction, but they made a creative choice.

[Kirby101]

They have an end game. They've said as much several times. You might not like the direction, but they made a creative choice.

Yes they have. I am still reading and I agree with Kees that these are wonderfully produced books. I want to make clear that I am not saying they are badly written and of course the art always is outstanding. I just find myself more and more depressed when I read them. Part of it is that I remember a period with Hellboy, Liz, Abe, Roger and Johann, when these were a lot more fun. Or perhaps it has to do with my current outlook on the world, but I felt like commenting about my take on things.

[Joker]

I'm not saying you shouldn't express your opinion. You asked a question, I answered that question. That's all.

To be fair, they're playing with a massive apocalypse setting. That's not going to be "fun" most of the time. I don't know feel like the book is a downer, but I also really like apocalypse, world ending stories.

[Kirby101]

I'm not saying you shouldn't express your opinion. You asked a question, I answered that question. That's all.

To be fair, they're playing with a massive apocalypse setting. That's not going to be "fun" most of the time. I don't know feel like the book is a downer, but I also really like apocalypse, world ending stories.

I didn't think you were. I was just elaborating.

[Kees_L]

Yes they have. I am still reading and I agree with Kees that these are wonderfully produced books. I want to make clear that I am not saying they are badly written and of course the art always is outstanding. I just find myself more and more depressed when I read them. Part of it is that I remember a period with Hellboy, Liz, Abe, Roger and Johann, when these were a lot more fun. Or perhaps it has to do with my current outlook on the world, but I felt like commenting about my take on things.

Perfectly understandable, Ed.

I hope it would comfort you in the way it does me in how I feel that Hellboy and Abe and Liz as characters, or any themology to them, are presented as containing much paradoxality or dual-sidedness.
Just like how the Bureau of Defense would need to present dual-sidedness, in the sense that what would neededly be 'hanging in the balance' would need to really be 'hanging in the balance'.

An imminent apocalypse would really need to be such, at least as a culmination, in light of all that the characters and the lore to them would or could continue to be proposing. Any battles that would already be won, would not be battles. Death or loss as being not such, couldn't be such.

Things being all swell and hopeful or happy technically mean they could turn for the worse more rather than not. So even hopefulness or happiness doesn't lead to comfort neededly, but onto change just as likely.

Hellboy is a walking paradox, for the sake of presenting character of his own more so than not. Abe is a walking paradox, as whatever he is remains as yet fully unfinished or a total mystery. Liz is a walking paradox.
And if they'd be heroes or showing character it's in the way how they persist at never succumbing to but apparent destinies, at no point would they succumb to mere expectations, in that would be showing them having character.

None of the characters their outfits or apparent skills would matter as much as their personal choices plus they'd just actually be what they'd be - much in the way how mr Mike always says he wants his stories to work organically, much the same as what was said about Collodi's Pinocchio as revolving around 'metamorphosis, personal evolution, and the nature of good and evil', I would think.

Story matter like that will likely prove relentlessly uncompromising both as captivating to the full, but as you implied I would think such for stories a virtue and strength more rather than not.

I'm pretty sure that not Abe and not Hellboy or any of them would become to prove a letdown or turnoff, as stuff getting the more dire or much in the balance ever still, would only be pointing to as much a captivating resolve or outcome, eventhough logically one would likely be needing a proper oversight and perspective onto things, like how mr Mike often states that for any status quo some kind of change would come looming 'round the corner.

Not only Hellboy left the Bureau, but Liz and Abe did too. Not only for never to be returning, but potentially so at least. It seems Liz could be back, whereas Hellboy might never be returning or only in the most dire of "defending", whereas Abe would appear to be growing evermore mysterious, at least for the time being.

I would say Abe would be an enigma so mysterious that neither any readers or characters could know who or what he is, just like he himself wouldn't be capable of knowing.

Abe seems to have been like that since the beginning all along, although with growing only the more mysterious surprisingly. I don't know about you but I feel I want to know how that evolves, even if it ends - however dire or bleak seeming - I feel I will want to know.
There hàve been happy times at the Bureau and really plenty of it, but recent times don't seem to be like that. Which doesn't drive me away from the story, but more rather it draws me in, as wanting to know where any of it could be leading.

[Joker]

I didn't think you were. I was just elaborating.

Cool. Didn't want any of that to come off wrong.

[middenway]

Yes they have. I am still reading and I agree with Kees that these are wonderfully produced books. I want to make clear that I am not saying they are badly written and of course the art always is outstanding. I just find myself more and more depressed when I read them. Part of it is that I remember a period with Hellboy, Liz, Abe, Roger and Johann, when these were a lot more fun. Or perhaps it has to do with my current outlook on the world, but I felt like commenting about my take on things.

I think you'll find that Hellboy and the B.P.R.D. will be really fun for you then.

[Kirby101]

I think you'll find that Hellboy and the B.P.R.D. will be really fun for you then.

Yes, I am looking forward to it.
I also want to thank Kees for the thoughtful reply. On further thought, I think one of the things that might be bothering me is how much they are dragging this out. I don't remember objecting at first to this coming-apocalypse or mid-apocalypse world. But since it seems sure that they will not win and the dark end (however that occurs) is on the way, I just want them to get on with it. All these stories, even though they are enjoyable and at times fun, become more and more pointless. This issue is a perfect metaphor for the whole series. We follow this character through ups and downs, but in the end all his efforts are useless. I suppose the next step is the post apocalypse world that is coming. At least in most post apocalyptic stories, the hope of rebirth is there. Now there is just the certain abyss.

[Kees_L]

Yes, I am looking forward to it.
I also want to thank Kees for the thoughtful reply.

It's moments and discussions such as these that make me like this forum a whole lot.

On further thought, I think one of the things that might be bothering me is how much they are dragging this out. I don't remember objecting at first to this coming-apocalypse or mid-apocalypse world. But since it seems sure that they will not win and the dark end (however that occurs) is on the way, I just want them to get on with it. All these stories, even though they are enjoyable and at times fun, become more and more pointless. This issue is a perfect metaphor for the whole series. We follow this character through ups and downs, but in the end all his efforts are useless. I suppose the next step is the post apocalypse world that is coming. At least in most post apocalyptic stories, the hope of rebirth is there. Now there is just the certain abyss.

I see what you mean in how doom would appear to be this dark cloud as hanging overhead on a constant with apparently needing to culminate into some sorrowful end, but I personally do still see it as a continuing balance nonetheless, with Hellboy's person and the Bureau as potentially at the helm of all that!

> conjecture spoilers ahead! <

When Hellboy became to face the dragon at the field of Vigrid (in Hellboy: The Fury), it appeared that dragon would be the Ogdru Jahad having awoken onto coming to establish ultimate doom.
The actual dark cloud, the 'deity', the floating candy bar with its minions being the Katha Hem or whatever they're called, having always been hiding within the World, waiting to awaken onto fulfilling the ending to the world and all things living within it.
However the dragon killing Hellboy actually wasn't the Ogdru Jahad but turned out to being Nimue / the Goddess of War, eventhough the field of Vigrid both as the Hems awakening would all be very real, as well as the Ogdru Jahad still to remain floating up in space inside humongous crystals.

At least that's how I've been reading it. Making it so that the field of Vigrid would return into existence once Hellboy would return there, when he would need to be facing the Ogdru Jahad dragon for a final time, before the Ogdru Jahad and its hydra-like following would get to the task of ridding this world of all things living.

As if Hellboy will have gone to Hell for the trip of a lifetime, but with his doom-plight as waiting for him once 'the very end' of it all will come to pass?
Plus it was also mentioned or hinted upon that others would also still have tasks or destinies to meet with, such as Liz and Abe and possibly even Roger.

Which makes me think it a possibility that eventhough the Bureau and the world would in actuality be facing or dealing with very actual apocalyptical threats as seeming to have been set in motion, it might not have to be so that doom itself would need to be all that imminent or at least it could still be a while yet.

If only because if doom would be that imminent, like but mere years or months away, I would think others would surface to witness it, such as the faeries and demons and all the old beings that would have gone into hiding away from 'the age of man' or modern times or whatever.
And I would think that Abe's journey or crisis would need to come to some kind of a close first, as it might be that in that he might learn on how to get a grip on the Ogdru or its monsters in some sense or another.
Or Liz, maybe she's to have more of a premonition, or she'll become able to harness the doombringers by means of Vril or some such.

Not that the Bureau would ever become able to prevent doom ultimately, but they might yet become able to pose more of a defense than they would now. By way of discovering or make sense of some old history of the World. Like those hand-head-priests from way back may have interacted with the Hems or the Ogdru in times gone by, like a knowledge gone lost and forgotten through the ages? Maybe agent Howards his weird journey into what seems such times could yet prove of worth - why have stories on such if none of it would matter onto keeping doom at bay? Or perhaps those sheepish aliens make another surprise visit, with shedding some kind of light on stuff?

However dreadful or dragging on gloomily it might seem currently, Í'm thinking it really won't be over until it's over! And even if some things become lost in the fire, that don't have to mean everything would neededly be, just like that. Even if doom would be imminent so much stuff as happening or brought forth might yet be needing to resolve, with presenting more of a close, before things could be to end?

Would be my line of thinking.