Mighty Thor #702 *Spoliers*

[GrandEleven]

So two things:

1. Fantastic issue.

2. Wait didn't this thread used to be multiple pages long? Did something get truncated?

[JKtheMac]

So two things:

1. Fantastic issue.

2. Wait didn't this thread used to be multiple pages long? Did something get truncated?

2 : No. Other issues maybe. It is pretty quiet in these forums over xmas generally and this was a thematic set-up issue. Also I was slow getting the synopsis up so the main appreciation thread contained a few reactions before this thread popped up.

Note: These supposedly slower issues often get accused of being evidence of decompression, yet look at how long and involving the summary is. What they really demonstrate is a focus on emotion and or interpersonal aspects, or a development of theme. Yes a silver or bronze age comic could do this much quicker, but without the depth.

[brettc1]

2 : No. Other issues maybe. It is pretty quiet in these forums over xmas generally and this was a thematic set-up issue. Also I was slow getting the synopsis up so the main appreciation thread contained a few reactions before this thread popped up.

Note: These supposedly slower issues often get accused of being evidence of decompression, yet look at how long and involving the summary is. What they really demonstrate is a focus on emotion and or interpersonal aspects, or a development of theme. Yes a silver or bronze age comic could do this much quicker, but without the depth.

Nah. Simonson could have done all this and still had three pages of fighting.

[JKtheMac]

Nah. Simonson could have done all this and still had three pages of fighting.

Well for a start he used to have more pages. And modern tastes, including my personal tastes demand a very different pacing than Simonson used. While I appreciate Simonson and am a fan of those books, I don't enjoy reading his work these days.

[kilderkin]

Nah. Simonson could have done all this and still had three pages of fighting.

That's very true imo

But he is an exceptional talent I feel

My taste is for brisker tales, or at least more conclusions along the way if a tale is extended

Extended/decompressed are a result of writing for trades I suppose,, which I understand, but that to me makes many books now read as being drip fed a story in chunks with stop gap tales along the way, or at least the major narrative is intertwined by side stories or tangents, of course others won't agree and that's okay too

I have found I prefer to read books in chunks, a few issues at a time

Twice monthly or weekly books are my preferred rate given the extended delivery I see a lot of nowadays

Some would say that's a way to fully explore and deliver a detailed narrative, for me it results in a lot of books feeling drawn out

But of course tastes and books vary, which is a good thing for the hobby I feel

Incidentally this is my view of writing generally now, not specifically to thor, it's clearly enjoyed by a huge number and justifiably so

[brettc1]

Well for a start he used to have more pages. And modern tastes, including my personal tastes demand a very different pacing than Simonson used. While I appreciate Simonson and am a fan of those books, I don't enjoy reading his work these days.

Well, of there are now less pages to work with how is that NOT evidence of decompression?

[JKtheMac]

Well, of there are now less pages to work with how is that NOT evidence of decompression?

It is evidence of the economic pressures and evidence of the increased complexity of artwork in comics.

This issue is not light on incident. Beat for beat it probably has as much plot as any comic. The beats are not of the same type, but they are there.

[kilderkin]

It is evidence of the economic pressures and evidence of the increased complexity of artwork in comics.

This issue is not light on incident. Beat for beat it probably has as much plot as any comic. The beats are not of the same type, but they are there.

the point about artwork isn't something that had occurred to me, fair enough there

Certainly art has improved greatly in the sense of the technology, colour, clarity, and that needs more space, bigger panels, so I suppose less chunks of narrative generally

Hadn't looked at it from that point before

[brettc1]

It is evidence of the economic pressures and evidence of the increased complexity of artwork in comics.

This issue is not light on incident. Beat for beat it probably has as much plot as any comic. The beats are not of the same type, but they are there.

I don't agree that the artwork is more complex - see again Simonson's run and also the work of Perez on Teen Titans and Avengers, and Byrne and Austin on X-Men. The colouring is better, but that is a separate thing.

What I would say is that flash art is used to substitute for story. Aaron is less guilty of this than most, but it's still a factor. That scene with Heimdall could have played out on one page with the final panel taking up half, and it would have been just as effective. After all, we all knew what was coming so it was hardly a surprise.

[JKtheMac]

I don't agree that the artwork is more complex - see again Simonson's run and also the work of Perez on Teen Titans and Avengers, and Byrne and Austin on X-Men. The colouring is better, but that is a separate thing.

What I would say is that flash art is used to substitute for story. Aaron is less guilty of this than most, but it's still a factor. That scene with Heimdall could have played out on one page with the final panel taking up half, and it would have been just as effective. After all, we all knew what was coming so it was hardly a surprise.

And if that was the style of the art I don't think it would be popular today. There are specific books that have a more kirbyesque or maybe cartooning style, but let's be honest they are not the mainstream books. Then you have pastiches like the 9 panel grid fetish ever since Watchmen which people gush over but if they didn't get the reference would ignore or actively criticise. The expectation of the modern superhero reader is not cartooning. That is for the slightly more art focused books. Hawkeye was popular because it stood out and garnered critical acclaim, it is intrinsically a niche style that crossed over. Notably there hasn't been a huge and probably deserved following of Aja since.

The mainstream superhero audience is inherently set in its tastes. Nobody really wants loads of small panels unless they are told they do. They want elaborate page layouts and moment to moment storytelling, they want interesting ideas but they want them delivered bold and proud.

Sadly nobody wants 'My Favourite Thing is Monsters' style storytelling in their capes books. X-Men Grand Design may be a hit (let's hope so) but I have heard just as many people not getting it as loving it.

All that said I still stand by my point that there is as much going on in this book as any older book. You can't easily synopsise the plot in a couple of paragraphs therefore it is not really decompression. Nostalgia tells us older books have more plot. What they really have is a different pacing and more discrete stories within issues. That's structure not complexity. If you want nostalgia with a modern edge than there are books for that. Astro City is near perfection in this regard, but it isn't topping the charts.

[brettc1]

And if that was the style of the art I don't think it would be popular today. There are specific books that have a more kirbyesque or maybe cartooning style, but let's be honest they are not the mainstream books. Then you have pastiches like the 9 panel grid fetish ever since Watchmen which people gush over but if they didn't get the reference would ignore or actively criticise. The expectation of the modern superhero reader is not cartooning. That is for the slightly more art focused books. Hawkeye was popular because it stood out and garnered critical acclaim, it is intrinsically a niche style that crossed over. Notably there hasn't been a huge and probably deserved following of Aja since.

The mainstream superhero audience is inherently set in its tastes. Nobody really wants loads of small panels unless they are told they do. They want elaborate page layouts and moment to moment storytelling, they want interesting ideas but they want them delivered bold and proud.

Sadly nobody wants 'My Favourite Thing is Monsters' style storytelling in their capes books. X-Men Grand Design may be a hit (let's hope so) but I have heard just as many people not getting it as loving it.

All that said I still stand by my point that there is as much going on in this book as any older book. You can't easily synopsise the plot in a couple of paragraphs therefore it is not really decompression. Nostalgia tells us older books have more plot. What they really have is a different pacing and more discrete stories within issues. That's structure not complexity. If you want nostalgia with a modern edge than there are books for that. Astro City is near perfection in this regard, but it isn't topping the charts.

Lady Thor is fighting Mlaekiths armies all over the ten realms. She arm wrestlies Hercules to get help from Olympus. When Thor intervenes its a draw but Herc says he will help anyway.

The real Thor insists Jane lose the Hamer and resume her cancer treatment. She returns to mortal form but instead goes to confront Odin about his indolence, backed by most of the Asgardians calling for revolution. When Cul can't control the situation Odin emerges. The argument between Jane and the all father wakes Frigga, who says they should help Jane fight.

Then Mangog shows up.

Well, your right; it actually took three paragraphs,

[theoneandonly]

I wish we had the three tier story arc like the godkiller arc then maybe it could have proved more of a complex plot. if all the Thor's past and present and the future are involved as shown in Thor 700 then it would have been truly epic as readers would have found the "darkness" possessed ego planet coming to subsume earth or to destroy Asgard more compelling than mangogs rampage though it would have detracted attention from 'the death of Thor' story arc. Hmm I wonder if it would have made more sense to heighten the mystery and suspense by indicating death of a Thor was going to take place whether in future past or present much like the three storyline of FF while combating a specific menace but then again there would be no sense in Thor dying in the past as it would lead to a alternate timeline where Jane would have found the hammer and become Thor from the beginning.

[JKtheMac]

Lady Thor is fighting Mlaekiths armies all over the ten realms. She arm wrestlies Hercules to get help from Olympus. When Thor intervenes its a draw but Herc says he will help anyway.

The real Thor insists Jane lose the Hamer and resume her cancer treatment. She returns to mortal form but instead goes to confront Odin about his indolence, backed by most of the Asgardians calling for revolution. When Cul can't control the situation Odin emerges. The argument between Jane and the all father wakes Frigga, who says they should help Jane fight.

Then Mangog shows up.

Well, your right; it actually took three paragraphs,

And it is so focused on the action beats that it misses 60% of the actual story. Which only reinforces my point that the beats are different now but still there. Often a focus on things other than action is misinterpreted as decompression.