The Problem With Mary Jane - A Character Analysis

[Celgress]

Disclaimer this is my personal analysis of the situation. Feel free to disagree.

Why has 616 Mary Jane suffered so greatly in the Post-OMD continuity? After much reflection, I think I've discovered the answer. Unlike Spider-Man's other historical love interests MJ simply doesn't have much of a character beyond being a love interest, at least not in the twenty years proceeding OMD. While Gwen suffered from this state, one could plausibly argue even more so than MJ currently does, that has changed in recent years due to the success of Spider-Gwen and the Amazing Spider-Man Film Series. MJ unlike Black Cat or Silver Sable, for example, lacks agency of her own. While they are a thief and a mercenary respectively who do exciting things besides being Peter's bedmate MJ is not. In most media, she appears in she is nothing more than a damsel in distress needing Spider-Man to rescue her at various points in the story or the worried spouse standing helpless, & impotently, by the window awaiting Spide-Man's return. In essence, she consistently is presented as a plot device not a completely realized character with narrative value independent of the hero. Thus, when one takes away the role of Spider-Man love interest from MJ she flounders as she has no other clear role in the narrative. I'm not saying this cannot change, I'm simply saying this is what has held the character back in recent years.

[Frontier]

I would say that MJ does have a life beyond being a love interest, since even when she was together with Peter, the books would focus on her professional and social life and how that impacted her and her life with Peter.

She's always had her own agency, even back during the Lee/Romita days, it's just become downplayed in a Post-OMD climate where she's not a major lead in the book anymore and writers either avoid using her because of the implications of having her back in the book in a prominent way or are just disinterested in writing her.

I also think the fact that comics are relatively less focused on characters' civilian lives and civilian supporting cast has also hurt MJ's standing to a degree. Back in the day she didn't need powers or a costume to do something awesome or help Peter out but nowadays it feels like she needs to put on a costume just to get panel-time or any significant characterization. I think this is reflected in Spider-Man media as well.

There is nothing about Gwen in the Amazing films (torn between her career and love, being their confidante) etc. that MJ hadn't had prior.

[Alan2099]

Part of the problem is that her life and career don't really add anything to Spider-man and his stories. Being an actress and a model doesn't reflect or provide a different view on what Spider-man does or who Peter is. it doesn't bring in story possibilities or supporting cast members that would interact with him. Nothing that leads to chance encounters or forces the two to interact in different ways. MJ Being a model and actress would be okay if that was part of the world Spider-man inhabited, but it isn't.

[Kevinroc]

The problem is they were in such a rush to end the marriage in whatever way possible that they didn't really plan out what to do with her next, beyond her not getting back together with Peter. So they've tried distancing her from the franchise, up to the point that they let the Iron Man writer take her.

Everything they've done is really a response to ending the marriage and the stuff that came before. So Mary Jane still casts a large shadow over the Spider-franchise. They don't really have an answer for what to do with her beyond "she can't be married to Peter."

Part of the problem is that her life and career don't really add anything to Spider-man and his stories. Being an actress and a model doesn't reflect or provide a different view on what Spider-man does or who Peter is. it doesn't bring in story possibilities or supporting cast members that would interact with him. Nothing that leads to chance encounters or forces the two to interact in different ways. MJ Being a model and actress would be okay if that was part of the world Spider-man inhabited, but it isn't.

MJ puts on a different kind of mask than Peter.

(Why is it only Raimi understood this?)

[Confuzzled]

The problem is they were in such a rush to end the marriage in whatever way possible that they didn't really plan out what to do with her next

They didn't plan out or they didn't particularly care? I mean, when her replacement is named after the daughter of the guy who mandated the end of her status quo as our hero's wife...

MJ puts on a different kind of mask than Peter.

(Why is it only Raimi understood this?)

If we are talking only about other media adaptations, then I would say Greg Weisman understood it pretty well too as discussed in his interpretations and plans for MJ, unfortunately some of which couldn't come into fruition. MCU's "MJ" is evasive herself too, but there are plenty of directions they could go with her as it's early days still.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I would say that MJ does have a life beyond being a love interest, since even when she was together with Peter, the books would focus on her professional and social life and how that impacted her and her life with Peter.

She's always had her own agency, even back during the Lee/Romita days, it's just become downplayed in a Post-OMD climate where she's not a major lead in the book anymore and writers either avoid using her because of the implications of having her back in the book in a prominent way or are just disinterested in writing her.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head here, Frontier. Couldn't agree more.

The idea that Mary Jane didn't have a character separate from being a love interest is very ill-informed. Her need to pursue her own professional wants is actually something that, for many years, added texture to her and Peter's relationship. It made them seem like a real couple who weren't always on the same page because each had their individual aspirations.

[Miles To Go]

In most media, she appears in she is nothing more than a damsel in distress needing Spider-Man to rescue her at various points in the story or the worried spouse standing helpless, & impotently, by the window awaiting Spide-Man's return.

This is such an over exaggeration.

[Spider-Tiger]

MJ puts on a different kind of mask than Peter.

(Why is it only Raimi understood this?)

I can see both sides of the career argument. On one hand, it makes sense thematically. On the other, it makes it difficult to pull her "into the action" of a Spider-Man story (see damsel in distress Rami MJ) and keep her at the forefront consistently (at least without the marriage). This is probably why we've had adaptations of a Gwen Stacy that works at Oscorp and a Mary Jane that works at the Daily Bugle. It's more "convenient".

[Kevinroc]

They didn't plan out or they didn't particularly care? I mean, when her replacement is named after the daughter of the guy who mandated the end of her status quo as our hero's wife...

Why not both?

If we are talking only about other media adaptations, then I would say Greg Weisman understood it pretty well too as discussed in his interpretations and plans for MJ, unfortunately some of which couldn't come into fruition. MCU's "MJ" is evasive herself too, but there are plenty of directions they could go with her as it's early days still.

Not to the extant Raimi did. Raimi really understood how Peter as photographer can play into the entire dichotomy of Spider-Man. We've seen people who didn't understand that make their own Spider-Man films (the ASM movies.)

I can see both sides of the career argument. On one hand, it makes sense thematically. On the other, it makes it difficult to pull her "into the action" of a Spider-Man story (see damsel in distress Rami MJ) and keep her at the forefront consistently (at least without the marriage). This is probably why we've had adaptations of a Gwen Stacy that works at Oscorp and a Mary Jane that works at the Daily Bugle. It's more "convenient".

I agree with this post.

[Frontier]

I can see both sides of the career argument. On one hand, it makes sense thematically. On the other, it makes it difficult to pull her "into the action" of a Spider-Man story (see damsel in distress Rami MJ) and keep her at the forefront consistently (at least without the marriage). This is probably why we've had adaptations of a Gwen Stacy that works at Oscorp and a Mary Jane that works at the Daily Bugle. It's more "convenient".

That and, again, with the lack of focus on the civilian supporting cast the supporting cast generally needs to have some kind or role or job that intersects with or is influenced by the main character's Superhero life if they want to stay relevant.

(Not that MJ's acting career hasn't intersected with Peter as Spider-Man before).

Of course, I think acting fits better for Mary Jane and her personality then "redhead Lois Lane" does.

Not to the extant Raimi did. Raimi really understood how Peter as photographer can play into the entire dichotomy of Spider-Man. We've seen people who didn't understand that make their own Spider-Man films (the ASM movies.)

I think Weisman understood the importance of the Bugle and it's impact on Peter/Spider-Man, more then we really see now or in other media.

[Spider-Tiger]

That and, again, with the lack of focus on the civilian supporting cast the supporting cast generally needs to have some kind or role or job that intersects with or is influenced by the main character's Superhero life if they want to stay relevant.

(Not that MJ's acting career hasn't intersected with Peter as Spider-Man before).

Of course, I think acting fits better for Mary Jane and her personality then "redhead Lois Lane" does.

Agreed. I've thought that having her aspire to work on television as opposed to print media might be a decent tradeoff between entertainment and journalism. Even still the whole girlfriend reporter route (Lois Lane, Iris West, Vicki Vale, etc.) Is incredibly generic.

[vrvr1]

Interesting analysis. I think this comes from the fact that in the past most female characters were just that - plot devices or eye candy. This has of course changed more in recent years. But while lots of female character have gottenmore of a role outside of the classical damsel in distress, Mary Jane has been kind of overlooked in this process.

Even Louis Lane has her job as a journalist/author and even now as a mom is still more than just Supermans wife.

I hope the next Spider-Man writer is going to take care of Mary Jane and make her a more well rounded character. Slott wasn't capapble of that - like so many things.

[Mister Mets]

I'm not sure I agree.

One issue is that this is Peter Parker's story, so it really isn't a negative for characters to function mainly in terms of how they affect him.

Mary Jane's character has changed significantly, so that various takes on the character are rather different from when she was introduced, and was immediately an interesting supporting character.

There's clearly potential in stories about an aspiring actress with a sparkling personality and hidden depths. The question is the degree to which that works in Spider-Man's world. It isn't the best match for a superhero. Lois Lane as a driven reporter works in both Clark and Superman's worlds. Catwoman works really well in Batman's world, and Selina Kyle can have interesting interactions with Bruce Wayne.

[Kevinroc]

I think Weisman understood the importance of the Bugle and it's impact on Peter/Spider-Man, more then we really see now or in other media.

This thread isn't about the Bugle and its cast. It's about MJ.

[Spider-Tiger]

To sum it up I think there are numerous obstacles that MJ is saddled with:
- The disintegration of her relationship with the main character; which has slowly oozed its way into other media adaptations.
- An unpopular film portrayal; followed by a highly popular film portrayal of a stand-in.
- A trend of moving away from the stories of "Joe Schmoe" civilian characters and/or pushing them into superheroics.
- A trend of de-sexualizing female characters to make comics more approachable to females. This has been a good thing for comics. However, I've seen Mary Jane's unabashed sexuality (which is part and parcel with her independence) conflated with the "objectification of women in comics" or (on the opposite end of the spectrum) shamed (because only femme fatales are allowed to behave in such a way; not friends, girlfriends, and wives)
- That she was designed for a role contrary to the one that she ultimately grew into. It makes it difficult for some to accept her in her current form.
- That she and the main character operate within different spheres. Her occupational independence can sometimes work against her as a top billing character. This ties back to her initially being designed for a different role.