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  1. #76
    World's Greatest Hero blackspidey2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    I’m going to half agree. I think Peter should stay a genius, but I don’t think SHIELD is a good fit for him. Too many bosses and controls over what he could do. I’d prefer him to be a self-made man, getting by on his genius.
    I definitely prefer Peter doing things on his own, which we got to some extent with Parker Industries, but I think SHIELD could have been cool as a change of pace. Though I guess now that I think about it I don't think it would work all that well after maybe 10 or 15 issues. It sounded better in theory than it would in reality IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Honestly, I think they wayyyyy overplayed the super-science and tech in this run.

    I like a Peter who's smart but I really don't need to see him consistently up there with Reed, Tony, and company or building new tech like he's Batman or Iron Man, but that's me.
    Why? Being a super genius has been part of his character since the beginning, and it's been constantly shoved down our throats by the writers that Peter could be like the smartest person on Earth when he grows older and if he gets more time to apply himself. Personally, I'm glad they finally started to deliver on that promise - now, all there is left to do is for them to not forget about it again. As long as the science/tech/intelligence doesn't overshadow the more important aspects of Spider-Man (the responsibility, the guilt, and the heart), then, IMO at least, the more the better!

    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    that's the balancing act... if you take peter's attributes at face value: funny, super strong, super buff, super athletic, good looking polymath, it's harder to reconcile him as the "every man". throw in the current mainstream acceptance (even celebration) of geek culture and it gets harder still.

    so you need to come up with reasons to constantly put him back in that box. some would be personality based, others systemic. depending on how complex or deep the writing wants to get. orrrr...you just hand-wave it all.
    TBH I still struggle to see how Peter was ever an "everyman". Even when he was a teen and written by Stan Lee, he was far from normal. He was an outright social outcast (which the normal person is not), completely awkward (which the normal person is not), a super-genius (which the normal person is not), went from being extremely unpopular to extremely popular with girls (which the normal person is not), an orphan (which the normal person is not), etc etc. He always was extraordinary. I hate this stupid "everyman" myth which Marvel uses as an excuse to stop Peter from ever growing as a character or being written well. I think it all started with writers with a poor understanding of Peter's character in the early and mid 80s (ex. Peter dropping out of college was one of the stupidest moments in Spider-Man history).
    Last edited by blackspidey2099; 01-13-2018 at 10:44 PM.

  2. #77
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I definitely prefer Peter doing things on his own, which we got to some extent with Parker Industries, but I think SHIELD could have been cool as a change of pace. Though I guess now that I think about it I don't think it would work all that well after maybe 10 or 15 issues. It sounded better in theory than it would in reality IMO.
    I think Peter with SHIELD would just be the same kind of gimmicky status quo that Parker Industries was.
    Why? Being a super genius has been part of his character since the beginning, and it's been constantly shoved down our throats by the writers that Peter could be like the smartest person on Earth when he grows older and if he gets more time to apply himself. Personally, I'm glad they finally started to deliver on that promise - now, all there is left to do is for them to not forget about it again. As long as the science/tech/intelligence doesn't overshadow the more important aspects of Spider-Man (the responsibility, the guilt, and the heart), then, IMO at least, the more the better!
    And I enjoy him as a genius, but as just one element of his life and not shoved in our faces like it was in this run, where I feel it did at times overshadow those other important elements you mentioned.

    I really don't need to see Peter put on the same pedestal as Reed, Tony, Hank, etc. I know he can be as a good as those guys, but I don't need to see it conveyed the way it was in Slott's run.

    But to each their own.
    TBH I still struggle to see how Peter was ever an "everyman". Even when he was a teen and written by Stan Lee, he was far from normal. He was an outright social outcast (which the normal person is not), completely awkward (which the normal person is not), a super-genius (which the normal person is not), went from being extremely unpopular to extremely popular with girls (which the normal person is not), an orphan (which the normal person is not), etc etc. He always was extraordinary. I hate this stupid "everyman" myth which Marvel uses as an excuse to stop Peter from ever growing as a character or being written well. I think it all started with writers with a poor understanding of Peter's character in the early and mid 80s (ex. Peter dropping out of college was one of the stupidest moments in Spider-Man history).
    I think a lot of people can actually relate to that though.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I definitely prefer Peter doing things on his own, which we got to some extent with Parker Industries, but I think SHIELD could have been cool as a change of pace. Though I guess now that I think about it I don't think it would work all that well after maybe 10 or 15 issues. It sounded better in theory than it would in reality IMO.
    Frankly, Iíd dread either Nick Fury or some other SHIELD higher-up getting it in their head they get to dictate anything and everything about Peterís life. I mean, thatís what happened in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    I definitely prefer Peter doing things on his own, which we got to some extent with Parker Industries, but I think SHIELD could have been cool as a change of pace. Though I guess now that I think about it I don't think it would work all that well after maybe 10 or 15 issues. It sounded better in theory than it would in reality IMO.
    Peter working with SHIELD is a similar problem to him getting PI, it just takes him out from street level stuff, his solo books need to keep him at that level since it's what defines him (Other books can have him doing stuff outside of street level though, it's basicaly the same situation as Batman).

    Not that it's a bad thing, I did enjoy PI era after all, just that such changes can/will annoy fans who like him at street level.

    TBH I still struggle to see how Peter was ever an "everyman". Even when he was a teen and written by Stan Lee, he was far from normal. He was an outright social outcast (which the normal person is not), completely awkward (which the normal person is not), a super-genius (which the normal person is not), went from being extremely unpopular to extremely popular with girls (which the normal person is not), an orphan (which the normal person is not), etc etc. He always was extraordinary. I hate this stupid "everyman" myth which Marvel uses as an excuse to stop Peter from ever growing as a character or being written well. I think it all started with writers with a poor understanding of Peter's character in the early and mid 80s (ex. Peter dropping out of college was one of the stupidest moments in Spider-Man history).
    Arguably the first two could've been there to make him relatable to other nerds, and the rest makes him into a "wish fulfillment", which is honestly what he always was, a nerd, super genius, kind of a loser and a pussy magnet? Yeah lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    Frankly, Iíd dread either Nick Fury or some other SHIELD higher-up getting it in their head they get to dictate anything and everything about Peterís life. I mean, thatís what happened in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.
    Well, Ultimate cartoon Fury is based on the most asshole Fury, which is why he was like that, usualy SHIELD isn't like that.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Well, Ultimate cartoon Fury is based on the most asshole Fury, which is why he was like that, usualy SHIELD isn't like that.
    I still wouldn’t trust them. SHIELD overall doesn’t have the greatest of track records (Ultimate Nick Fury stating SHIELD would own Peter when he turned 18 and everything 616 SHIELD did around Civil War).

  6. #81
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverWarriorWolf View Post
    Frankly, I’d dread either Nick Fury or some other SHIELD higher-up getting it in their head they get to dictate anything and everything about Peter’s life. I mean, that’s what happened in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon.
    I hate the idea that SHIELD wants all the superhumans to work for them. I always thought it worked better the way Nick Fury used to do it. He'd put on a trench coat, meet an superhero in a back alley, and tell them "legally I can't go after this guy, but here's the information to go after him if you want to. If you're caught it'll all on you."

    he knew how to work the system and work AROUND the system.

  7. #82
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I hate the idea that SHIELD wants all the superhumans to work for them. I always thought it worked better the way Nick Fury used to do it. He'd put on a trench coat, meet an superhero in a back alley, and tell them "legally I can't go after this guy, but here's the information to go after him if you want to. If you're caught it'll all on you."

    he knew how to work the system and work AROUND the system.
    I don't think anyone's been able to run SHIELD as effectively or complimentary as old Fury did.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post

    TBH I still struggle to see how Peter was ever an "everyman". Even when he was a teen and written by Stan Lee, he was far from normal. He was an outright social outcast (which the normal person is not), completely awkward (which the normal person is not), a super-genius (which the normal person is not), went from being extremely unpopular to extremely popular with girls (which the normal person is not), an orphan (which the normal person is not), etc etc. He always was extraordinary. I hate this stupid "everyman" myth which Marvel uses as an excuse to stop Peter from ever growing as a character or being written well. I think it all started with writers with a poor understanding of Peter's character in the early and mid 80s (ex. Peter dropping out of college was one of the stupidest moments in Spider-Man history).
    not a bad point. while i think frontier is right saying a lot of people can identify with the outsider, that’s not necessarily an every man. looking at your classic every man characters in tv and film, majority are probably not “nerds” or hyper intelligent

    you might have a point that marvel migrated peter over to becoming an every man over time. which was probably why i preferred ben reilly as a kid, since he was the ultimate outsider
    troo fan or death

  9. #84
    Incredible Member frizb's Avatar
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    Dan will go down as one of my all-time favorites. Gerry Conway's run has always been my favorite, partly because of my age when I was reading it. It was magical and I have great memories of reading those stories for the first time. I've loved Dan's run. The breakneck pacing with so many plots going on simultaneously is one of the thing's I've enjoyed the most. Under Dan, Pete hasfaced his greatest hardships (which some here can't stand), but continues to overcome the odds to prove how Amazing he really is. Without great adversity there can't be a great victory for Spidey and Dan has provided both. If Dan is leaving, I'll certainly check out his next book and wish him well!

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    an easy way to explain peter’s inability to be professionally successful is his commitment to superheroics. it can be a case of missed opportunities
    troo fan or death

  11. #86
    Incredible Member frizb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    an easy way to explain peter’s inability to be professionally successful is his commitment to superheroics. it can be a case of missed opportunities
    Absolutely!

  12. #87
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    It all hinges on how Dan wraps up his run. Superior is always going to be his high point. When all is said and done, that is the story he will be remembered for. I hope Go Down Swinging delivers something special. I class Dan as one of the better Spidey writers. If he had left after Superior the dude would have been classed as one of the greats. As it stands, his tenure is recognized as hitting its bright spot with Superior. Everything afterwards has been lacklustre in my eyes. Not inherently bad, just not as good as it could have been. Certainly nowhere near Superior.

  13. #88
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    Superior really is substantially overrated
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 01-15-2018 at 03:15 AM.

  14. #89
    Fantastic Member Von's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackspidey2099 View Post
    TBH I still struggle to see how Peter was ever an "everyman". Even when he was a teen and written by Stan Lee, he was far from normal. He was an outright social outcast (which the normal person is not), completely awkward (which the normal person is not), a super-genius (which the normal person is not), went from being extremely unpopular to extremely popular with girls (which the normal person is not), an orphan (which the normal person is not), etc etc. He always was extraordinary.
    Pete - as written by Stan - was not 'everyman'. Pete was 'everynerd':

    He was relatable to me as a kid because he was smart and skinny, and different, and because of that he didn't always fit in with other kids, and sometimes they beat him up.

    The addition of superpowers, and using his brains to create high tech accessories for his adventures, and then somehow blundering into dating some of the most attractive girls on campus (a blonde and a redhead) was wish fulfillment for the everynerd.

    Anything they gave him beyond that was moving away from the original premise of the character imo.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Anything they gave him beyond that was moving away from the original premise of the character imo.
    It's called growing up.

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