Thread Drift: Dan Slott's Legacy

[Gridde]

100% serious: Couldn't give a flying fig about those concerned w/ my "conduct outside it".

I've been polite, open, and VERY generous with my time with those who have been polite to me.
And I've been snarky with those who have been rude-- usually those who've been rude while under one, if not two, or even a dozen different online screen names.

I'd love to see how those who have been upset with my "conduct" would have done if they had faced one tenth of the hostility, rudeness, and-- in some cases-- death threats that I've received for my portrayal of a fictional character.

Tbh I don't completely get why you'd respond if you '100% seriously couldn't give a flying fig about those like me'. But I guess that's kinda my point, I've seen you post on the forums a few times seemingly just to argue with fans and it just doesn't seem necessary. Like I said before, that's just my personal opinion on it.

[BruceWayneJr.]

I've always been a passive Spidey fan, but Slott's run made me lock in and now it's the superhero comic I look forward to the most every month. I've been rereading it lately and almost everything from Big Time to Superior is great. A couple of my favorites are Mysterioso from The Gauntlet (a lotta folks tend to think it's morbid) and Matters of Life and Death, while Spider-Island and Ends of the Earth are two classics that I keep coming back to.

I've enjoyed his work on Thing, She-Hulk, Batman Adventures, Initiative and Avengers (ended too soon), and I hope he gets a run on Fantastic Four at some point. His legacy is already set as far as I'm concerned.

[Miles To Go]

Who has been spreading the rumors, and what is the basis for it?

Beats me. All I read were a couple of people mentioning on some forums that the cause of departure was a dispute over the X-Men issues of RYV, but they didn't elaborate on what it was. One of the people was someone who specializes in comic artist.

[The Rhino]

Danny will be remembered as one of the best spider-man writers of all time. Top five, definitely. Reestablished the series. Wow! Thanks, Danny.

[rrb]

Danny will be remembered as one of the best spider-man writers of all time. Top five, definitely. Reestablished the series. Wow! Thanks, Danny.

I second this thought.

[Mister Mets]

Beats me. All I read were a couple of people mentioning on some forums that the cause of departure was a dispute over the X-Men issues of RYV, but they didn't elaborate on what it was. One of the people was someone who specializes in comic artist.

Was one of the people an artist, or an original art collector, or just good at describing artists?

[John Ossie]

I think he stayed on a little too long. And I think that will be reflected when people discuss his run in the years to come.

Quoted in agreement.

With the likely return of the FF, Slott would be perfect to take over that title. All the chips are there: his use of the Baxter building in ASM, his work on Silver Surfer (who will be a supporting character) and his excellent handling of the FF characters in the past. Pair him with Mark Bagley and that’s a win for sure!

Yeah, despite the fact I dropped ASM after issue 28 I do think Slott would be a good fit for F4.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

I think Slott's run did a lot more for Doc Ock than it did for Spider-Man.

I'm glad that he brought back Ben Reilly, even though he did so in just about the worst way possible (thank god for PAD).

I also like RYV.

But for a decade's worth of stories, that's pretty lackluster.

Ultimately, I think Dan Slott's legacy will be some interesting concepts that weren't executed particularly well.

P.S. I would still like to know what exactly he was thinking with Alpha. Woof.

[Dan Slott]

P.S. I would still like to know what exactly he was thinking with Alpha. Woof.

Ouch. :-D

Yeah, I'll take the hit on Alpha every time. That did NOT work.

What should have been an easy layup got hurt by some format changes-- and I did NOT roll with the punches well.
Working on a licensed character isn't always the easiest thing in the world. There will be times that due to what the company needs, you have to change things on the fly, and I did NOT do a good job with that on the Alpha storyline.

Basically, ALPHA was designed to be a done-in-one story for the 50th.
The story was straight forward and simple:
Peter Parker has a high school science field trip come to HIS lab, one of HIS inventions zaps a kid and gives THEM great power.
Pete feels responsible for him and takes the kid under his wing as his sidekick.
The kid uses his power irresponsibly (doing all the things Pete wished *he* could've done with his powers back when he first started: Be a TV star, the most popular kid in school, date the cute girl he had a crush on, etc.)
But when that kid has his biggest trial by fire (w/ Spidey), fails, and people almost (or do) get hurt, Peter has no other choice but to take his side-kick down and use his tech to take the kid's powers away.
The End.

Should've worked.

Here's what went horribly wrong:
We made the kid unlikable (incredibly unlikable) so you'd know he had it coming...

...but the page count for the lead feature got drastically cut. The compromise? We'd spread the story out over two or three issues.
The marketing had already gone through, pushing the idea that for Spidey's 50th he was getting a sidekick.
(This was a red herring, because we-- originally-- knew that the kid would lose his powers by the end of the story).
But with the story going on for 2 more issues-- and with the kid KEEPING his powers at the end of what-was-now Part 1, we had a JERK for Spidey's first "ongoing" sidekick.
People HATED that.
By the time we were working on Part 3, the sales had come in on Part 1 and (being the 50th Anniversary issue) those sales were HUGE. Couple that with people genuinely interested in the idea that Spidey was getting a kid sidekick, Marvel honestly believed that there was some heat with this character. So they wanted to keep him up and running as an ongoing thing. Which meant that we COULDN'T really give Alpha his full comeuppance and take away his powers completely/permanently. Why? Because Marvel already wanted to try him out with a solo mini-series/spin-off.

So the story of the jerk who got super powers-- and had them taken away by Spider-Man-- became a story about a jerk who got super powers, and kinda kept them, so he could continue to be a jerk super hero.

That was NOT the original plan. :-/ Sorry.

[The Rhino]

Ouch. :-D

Yeah, I'll take the hit on Alpha every time. That did NOT work.

What should have been an easy layup got hurt by some format changes-- and I did NOT roll with the punches well.
Working on a licensed character isn't always the easiest thing in the world. There will be times that due to what the company needs, you have to change things on the fly, and I did NOT do a good job with that on the Alpha storyline.

Basically, ALPHA was designed to be a done-in-one story for the 50th.
The story was straight forward and simple:
Peter Parker has a high school science field trip come to HIS lab, one of HIS inventions zaps a kid and gives THEM great power.
Pete feels responsible for him and takes the kid under his wing as his sidekick.
The kid uses his power irresponsibly (doing all the things Pete wished *he* could've done with his powers back when he first started: Be a TV star, the most popular kid in school, date the cute girl he had a crush on, etc.)
But when that kid has his biggest trial by fire (w/ Spidey), fails, and people almost (or do) get hurt, Peter has no other choice but to take his side-kick down and use his tech to take the kid's powers away.
The End.

Should've worked.

Here's what went horribly wrong:
We made the kid unlikable (incredibly unlikable) so you'd know he had it coming...

...but the page count for the lead feature got drastically cut. The compromise? We'd spread the story out over two or three issues.
The marketing had already gone through, pushing the idea that for Spidey's 50th he was getting a sidekick.
(This was a red herring, because we-- originally-- knew that the kid would lose his powers by the end of the story).
But with the story going on for 2 more issues-- and with the kid KEEPING his powers at the end of what-was-now Part 1, we had a JERK for Spidey's first "ongoing" sidekick.
People HATED that.
By the time we were working on Part 3, the sales had come in on Part 1 and (being the 50th Anniversary issue) those sales were HUGE. Couple that with people genuinely interested in the idea that Spidey was getting a kid sidekick, Marvel honestly believed that there was some heat with this character. So they wanted to keep him up and running as an ongoing thing. Which meant that we COULDN'T really give Alpha his full comeuppance and take away his powers completely/permanently. Why? Because Marvel already wanted to try him out with a solo mini-series/spin-off.

So the story of the jerk who got super powers-- and had them taken away by Spider-Man-- became a story about a jerk who got super powers, and kinda kept them, so he could continue to be a jerk super hero.

That was NOT the original plan. :-/ Sorry.

What a fantastic and eye opening posting. Thanks for sharing, Daniel J. Slott. I appreciate the candor. You are an all time great.

[Scarlet Spider-Man]

Ouch. :-D

Yeah, I'll take the hit on Alpha every time. That did NOT work.

What should have been an easy layup got hurt by some format changes-- and I did NOT roll with the punches well.
Working on a licensed character isn't always the easiest thing in the world. There will be times that due to what the company needs, you have to change things on the fly, and I did NOT do a good job with that on the Alpha storyline.

Basically, ALPHA was designed to be a done-in-one story for the 50th.
The story was straight forward and simple:
Peter Parker has a high school science field trip come to HIS lab, one of HIS inventions zaps a kid and gives THEM great power.
Pete feels responsible for him and takes the kid under his wing as his sidekick.
The kid uses his power irresponsibly (doing all the things Pete wished *he* could've done with his powers back when he first started: Be a TV star, the most popular kid in school, date the cute girl he had a crush on, etc.)
But when that kid has his biggest trial by fire (w/ Spidey), fails, and people almost (or do) get hurt, Peter has no other choice but to take his side-kick down and use his tech to take the kid's powers away.
The End.

Should've worked.

Here's what went horribly wrong:
We made the kid unlikable (incredibly unlikable) so you'd know he had it coming...

...but the page count for the lead feature got drastically cut. The compromise? We'd spread the story out over two or three issues.
The marketing had already gone through, pushing the idea that for Spidey's 50th he was getting a sidekick.
(This was a red herring, because we-- originally-- knew that the kid would lose his powers by the end of the story).
But with the story going on for 2 more issues-- and with the kid KEEPING his powers at the end of what-was-now Part 1, we had a JERK for Spidey's first "ongoing" sidekick.
People HATED that.
By the time we were working on Part 3, the sales had come in on Part 1 and (being the 50th Anniversary issue) those sales were HUGE. Couple that with people genuinely interested in the idea that Spidey was getting a kid sidekick, Marvel honestly believed that there was some heat with this character. So they wanted to keep him up and running as an ongoing thing. Which meant that we COULDN'T really give Alpha his full comeuppance and take away his powers completely/permanently. Why? Because Marvel already wanted to try him out with a solo mini-series/spin-off.

So the story of the jerk who got super powers-- and had them taken away by Spider-Man-- became a story about a jerk who got super powers, and kinda kept them, so he could continue to be a jerk super hero.

That was NOT the original plan. :-/ Sorry.

Interesting. It seems like it tends to backfire spectacularly whenever Marvel makes last-minute changes to something (Alpha, Clone Saga, Sins Past, etc.). Makes me wonder how often the opposite is true.

Thanks for sharing.

[Mister Mets]

Ouch. :-D

Yeah, I'll take the hit on Alpha every time. That did NOT work.

What should have been an easy layup got hurt by some format changes-- and I did NOT roll with the punches well.
Working on a licensed character isn't always the easiest thing in the world. There will be times that due to what the company needs, you have to change things on the fly, and I did NOT do a good job with that on the Alpha storyline.

Basically, ALPHA was designed to be a done-in-one story for the 50th.
The story was straight forward and simple:
Peter Parker has a high school science field trip come to HIS lab, one of HIS inventions zaps a kid and gives THEM great power.
Pete feels responsible for him and takes the kid under his wing as his sidekick.
The kid uses his power irresponsibly (doing all the things Pete wished *he* could've done with his powers back when he first started: Be a TV star, the most popular kid in school, date the cute girl he had a crush on, etc.)
But when that kid has his biggest trial by fire (w/ Spidey), fails, and people almost (or do) get hurt, Peter has no other choice but to take his side-kick down and use his tech to take the kid's powers away.
The End.

Should've worked.

Here's what went horribly wrong:
We made the kid unlikable (incredibly unlikable) so you'd know he had it coming...

...but the page count for the lead feature got drastically cut. The compromise? We'd spread the story out over two or three issues.
The marketing had already gone through, pushing the idea that for Spidey's 50th he was getting a sidekick.
(This was a red herring, because we-- originally-- knew that the kid would lose his powers by the end of the story).
But with the story going on for 2 more issues-- and with the kid KEEPING his powers at the end of what-was-now Part 1, we had a JERK for Spidey's first "ongoing" sidekick.
People HATED that.
By the time we were working on Part 3, the sales had come in on Part 1 and (being the 50th Anniversary issue) those sales were HUGE. Couple that with people genuinely interested in the idea that Spidey was getting a kid sidekick, Marvel honestly believed that there was some heat with this character. So they wanted to keep him up and running as an ongoing thing. Which meant that we COULDN'T really give Alpha his full comeuppance and take away his powers completely/permanently. Why? Because Marvel already wanted to try him out with a solo mini-series/spin-off.

So the story of the jerk who got super powers-- and had them taken away by Spider-Man-- became a story about a jerk who got super powers, and kinda kept them, so he could continue to be a jerk super hero.

That was NOT the original plan. :-/ Sorry.

This might explain why people didn't like the story, although it has very little to do with the actual quality of the story (characterization, storytelling, tone, action sequences, etc.)

[boots]

This might explain why people didn't like the story, although it has very little to do with the actual quality of the story (characterization, storytelling, tone, action sequences, etc.)

i'd actually say it can. changes in format can drastically alter character and story arcs. the beats have to change. i'd say the running time or page count has a huge impact in a lot of ways

you can see it with directors cuts vs theatrical releases and other examples

[Mister Mets]

i'd actually say it can. changes in format can drastically alter character and story arcs. the beats have to change. i'd say the running time or page count has a huge impact in a lot of ways

you can see it with directors cuts vs theatrical releases and other examples

Sure, but I don't think it's applicable in this issue.

It seems the things that Slott believes bothered readers aren't anything that I see as connected to the quality of the issue (readers preferring an outcome that isn't dependent on characterization.)

[boots]

Sure, but I don't think it's applicable in this issue.

It seems the things that Slott believes bothered readers aren't anything that I see as connected to the quality of the issue (readers preferring an outcome that isn't dependent on characterization.)

maybe dan can clarify? i mean, it could be as simple as "character overstays its welcome" but i got the feeling that the concept itself had a limited page run in his head and then having to stretch that out against his initial plans put a strain/pressure on his work process.

as an example, i can think of snl skits that fail as long form movies, even under the same creative teams. there's also examples of the opposite of course. it's a case by case thing.

dan doesn't become a better or worse writer, but the quality of writing can suffer/benefit