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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    DC should go back to printing its floppies on newsprint, and should drop its price to $1.99

    But it should continue to print its collections on high-grade paper and hold those prices steady.

    This would give the company a huge competitive advantage over Marvel. Obviously it would sell many more floppies, but it would also sell more collections, because more people would read the collected stories in floppies in the first place.
    Agreed. And not just DC.

    This single change on the publishing end would reboot the entire industry.

    Also, it's time to kill the Direct Market.

  2. #92
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    DC should go back to printing its floppies on newsprint, and should drop its price to $1.99

    But it should continue to print its collections on high-grade paper and hold those prices steady.

    This would give the company a huge competitive advantage over Marvel. Obviously it would sell many more floppies, but it would also sell more collections, because more people would read the collected stories in floppies in the first place.
    Widen distribution back to drug stores, grocery stores, mini-marts, etc. Bring back spinner racks. Absolutely. The fact that they ended all of that in favor of comic shops is a big part of why readership narrowed a lot.

  3. #93
    Extraordinary Member MRP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelmcknight72 View Post
    Widen distribution back to drug stores, grocery stores, mini-marts, etc. Bring back spinner racks. Absolutely. The fact that they ended all of that in favor of comic shops is a big part of why readership narrowed a lot.

    Except they didn't end it. Retailers didn't want to carry comics because they didn't cost enough to pay for the space they took up. Places like 7-11 stopped carrying comics long before newsstand distribution ended. They stopped because they were not being carried in enough places to make it cost effective to overprint the books for the returns, and that was because so many outlets had stopped carrying comics. And since very few retail outlets now carry periodicals of any sort, and there is no infrastructure in place to distribute to places like that meaning a large capital investment would be needed to do so, meaning production costs would be high and require higher price points to cover, it would not result in cheaper comics, but poorer quality comics that cost the same or more that no one wants to carry. Not to mention that demand for newsprint has fallen so it is not produced in as high quantities as it once was, meaning the supply is short and prices on it are not cheap, as most of what is produced is bough to fro use by the remaining print newspapers. Not to mention since demand dropped off, many o the presses designed to handle newsprint have been dismantled or decommissioned, meaning you would have to outbid he existing publishers (i.e. newspapers) to get jobs done on those presses, which would result in higher prices, if the printers would even take jobs with smaller print runs like comics would have because those types of presses lose money when not running and giving a spot to a client with a small print run at the cost of losing a client with a larger print run is not a good business practice. Oh, and let's not forget that the coloring process for those presses requires engraving plates, a step and production cost not needed with more modern printing presses that use digital technology, so DC (and Marvel and whomever chooses to do so) would have to create and staff another department they do not currently have on staff anymore to even get those books to press, which all adds to the production costs and start up costs of making a switch, and would result in comics that would likely be the same price point the are now or more expensive, all the while reducing the quality of the product you are delivering to customers. The printing industry as a whole has pretty much moved on form newsprint. It's an archaic product, and archaic products cost more not less in a current market.

    An let's not forget that the periodical itself is a dinosaur format that most retail outlets wouldn't want to carry, especially at low prices that do not pay for the retail real estate it would take up in their store, especially not a product like periodicals which his little to no demand at all in the current marketplace and would do nothing to attract new customers no matter how it was priced.

    Comics did not abandon newsstands for the direct market. Newsstands were going away all on their own and all that was left as a path to market for comics was the direct market. There were reasons why the newsstands stopped carrying comics, and those reasons haven't changed. Nobody in retail is clamoring to get more periodicals to stock and try to sell.

    Going back to a product type newsstand vendors stopped wanting nearly 30 years ago and that has almost disappeared form the market altogether now is not a step forward for comics and is not a solution for what ails the industry. It won't expand the customer base or increase sales. The retail and publishing worlds have essentially moved on from periodicals and newsprint is going the way of the dodo everywhere except in the few newspapers still being put out (and not all them use traditional newsprint even). If comics want to take a step forward or to reach mass market customers, they need to leave these things behind too.

    -M
    Comic fans get the comics their buying habits deserve.

    "Opinion is the lowest form of human knowledge. It requires no accountability, no understanding." -Plato

  4. #94
    insulin4all CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRP View Post
    Except they didn't end it. Retailers didn't want to carry comics because they didn't cost enough to pay for the space they took up. Places like 7-11 stopped carrying comics long before newsstand distribution ended. They stopped because they were not being carried in enough places to make it cost effective to overprint the books for the returns, and that was because so many outlets had stopped carrying comics. And since very few retail outlets now carry periodicals of any sort, and there is no infrastructure in place to distribute to places like that meaning a large capital investment would be needed to do so, meaning production costs would be high and require higher price points to cover, it would not result in cheaper comics, but poorer quality comics that cost the same or more that no one wants to carry. Not to mention that demand for newsprint has fallen so it is not produced in as high quantities as it once was, meaning the supply is short and prices on it are not cheap, as most of what is produced is bough to fro use by the remaining print newspapers. Not to mention since demand dropped off, many o the presses designed to handle newsprint have been dismantled or decommissioned, meaning you would have to outbid he existing publishers (i.e. newspapers) to get jobs done on those presses, which would result in higher prices, if the printers would even take jobs with smaller print runs like comics would have because those types of presses lose money when not running and giving a spot to a client with a small print run at the cost of losing a client with a larger print run is not a good business practice. Oh, and let's not forget that the coloring process for those presses requires engraving plates, a step and production cost not needed with more modern printing presses that use digital technology, so DC (and Marvel and whomever chooses to do so) would have to create and staff another department they do not currently have on staff anymore to even get those books to press, which all adds to the production costs and start up costs of making a switch, and would result in comics that would likely be the same price point the are now or more expensive, all the while reducing the quality of the product you are delivering to customers. The printing industry as a whole has pretty much moved on form newsprint. It's an archaic product, and archaic products cost more not less in a current market.

    An let's not forget that the periodical itself is a dinosaur format that most retail outlets wouldn't want to carry, especially at low prices that do not pay for the retail real estate it would take up in their store, especially not a product like periodicals which his little to no demand at all in the current marketplace and would do nothing to attract new customers no matter how it was priced.

    Comics did not abandon newsstands for the direct market. Newsstands were going away all on their own and all that was left as a path to market for comics was the direct market. There were reasons why the newsstands stopped carrying comics, and those reasons haven't changed. Nobody in retail is clamoring to get more periodicals to stock and try to sell.

    Going back to a product type newsstand vendors stopped wanting nearly 30 years ago and that has almost disappeared form the market altogether now is not a step forward for comics and is not a solution for what ails the industry. It won't expand the customer base or increase sales. The retail and publishing worlds have essentially moved on from periodicals and newsprint is going the way of the dodo everywhere except in the few newspapers still being put out (and not all them use traditional newsprint even). If comics want to take a step forward or to reach mass market customers, they need to leave these things behind too.

    -M
    A major issue (pun unintended) with periodicals and newsstands is the money made compared to the space. Looking at magazines that do still make it on newsstands, they are usually weekly which means four or five times the profit per issue space.

    There are many reasons why the pipedream $1.99 for newsprint comics for DC isn't a viable or possible solution and they have been listed every time Trey made one of these posts. Alterna's cash flow for creators is dramatically different than DC's (or Marvel's) and that difference is huge. The choice of paper isn't doubling the price of the comic. People would love to see newsprint comics at $1.99, but the big companies can't.

  5. #95
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Didn't know we had so many necromancers on this board.

    Digital is the best option for reduced cost copies. I don't think the price point is the only reason comics are struggling. There's no reason sans pissing off retailers that a digital copy of a book that exists on a server and has no resale or collectible value costs the same as a ink and paper book that takes up space and can be resold.

    Not to mention digital offers DC a higher profit margin since it doesn't have any production cost beyond putting the comic together. They could likely make the same-or-more than they currently are there in this respect.

  6. #96
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    Why are we reviving this thread again?
    AKA FlashFreak
    Favorite Characters:
    DC: The Flash (Jay & Wally), Starman- Jack Knight, Stargirl, & Shazam!.
    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), & Doctor Strange.

    Current Pulls: Not a thing!

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Why are we reviving this thread again?
    Coz it's interesting and folk want to discuss again. Can't see the problem in that?

  8. #98
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Didn't know we had so many necromancers on this board.

    Digital is the best option for reduced cost copies. I don't think the price point is the only reason comics are struggling. There's no reason sans pissing off retailers that a digital copy of a book that exists on a server and has no resale or collectible value costs the same as a ink and paper book that takes up space and can be resold.

    Not to mention digital offers DC a higher profit margin since it doesn't have any production cost beyond putting the comic together. They could likely make the same-or-more than they currently are there in this respect.
    I'm out when floppies are done. It's not a collection at that point.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, SiKtC, Catwoman, Nightwing, Titans, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Brave and the Bold, No/One, Kill your Darlings, and Deviant.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #420-

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    I'm out when floppies are done. It's not a collection at that point.
    That's quite a strong stance to take. Are you saying you're not interested in reading the stories, and that you're only interested in collecting pamphlets?

    I believe the main selling point of comics should be captivating stories. Appealing to collectors over having strong, accessible content is a big part of what got comics in the mess they're in now.

    I also personally believe the physical pamphlets should be done away with. They just aren't practical, and generally speaking, people don't read magazines or the sort anymore.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Didn't know we had so many necromancers on this board.

    Digital is the best option for reduced cost copies. I don't think the price point is the only reason comics are struggling. There's no reason sans pissing off retailers that a digital copy of a book that exists on a server and has no resale or collectible value costs the same as a ink and paper book that takes up space and can be resold.

    Not to mention digital offers DC a higher profit margin since it doesn't have any production cost beyond putting the comic together. They could likely make the same-or-more than they currently are there in this respect.
    Except of course you are giving an autobiography of yourself to amazon through your consumption of media so that they can start to work out your voting, income bracket, education and basically weaponise your own media consumption against you.

  11. #101
    Incredible Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    I so friggin' on board for this idea!
    “To the future or to the past. To a time when thought is free, when men are different from one another and do not live alone - to a time when truth exists and what is done cannot be undone: from the age of uniformity, from the age of solitude, from the age of Big Brother, from the age of doublethink - greetings!" - Winston Smith

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    That's quite a strong stance to take. Are you saying you're not interested in reading the stories, and that you're only interested in collecting pamphlets?

    I believe the main selling point of comics should be captivating stories. Appealing to collectors over having strong, accessible content is a big part of what got comics in the mess they're in now.

    I also personally believe the physical pamphlets should be done away with. They just aren't practical, and generally speaking, people don't read magazines or the sort anymore.
    So true. Japanese manga has already gone digital. I have the Shonen Jump app on my phone. Like always American comics seem to be built on squeezing every last cent out of existing fans, while Japan seems mostly geared at new ones. And Manga is just as successful globally as American comics. The two biggest comic companies in America are really little more then Ip libraries. I wouldn’t even call them Ip farms because the term farm implies that they are growing new products. If they were real Ip farms they would look a lot more like Shueisha (Jump’s publisher) who are constantly coming up with new stories and Ip’s to sell.

  13. #103
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    That's quite a strong stance to take. Are you saying you're not interested in reading the stories, and that you're only interested in collecting pamphlets?

    I believe the main selling point of comics should be captivating stories. Appealing to collectors over having strong, accessible content is a big part of what got comics in the mess they're in now.

    I also personally believe the physical pamphlets should be done away with. They just aren't practical, and generally speaking, people don't read magazines or the sort anymore.
    I have every issue of Batman main title (and soon will on Detective) since I was born, Vol. 1 #260 - 713, and all of Vol. 2 and 3 so far. I'm proud of the collection I'm currated. I haven't read #260 through about #300. As with movies and to a lesser extent music, I don't feel you own digital. What would you rather have, the Mona Lisa or a jpeg of it?

    Also, gone would be the thrill of the hunt trying to track down a specific issue of a title for whatever reason. Visiting comic shops (and I know they are few and far between now), digging through long boxes, trying to find a deal even on eBay, those feelings will shrink and eventually be gone.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, SiKtC, Catwoman, Nightwing, Titans, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Brave and the Bold, No/One, Kill your Darlings, and Deviant.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #420-

  14. #104
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron chimp View Post
    Except of course you are giving an autobiography of yourself to amazon through your consumption of media so that they can start to work out your voting, income bracket, education and basically weaponise your own media consumption against you.
    You make it sound as if my comic purchases are the only thing that can be tracked as opposed to all my Google searches, smart devices, public statements and just about anything said in earshot of anything listed prior because they're literally everywhere.

    Put the tinfoil hats away.

    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    I have every issue of Batman main title (and soon will on Detective) since I was born, Vol. 1 #260 - 713, and all of Vol. 2 and 3 so far. I'm proud of the collection I'm currated. I haven't read #260 through about #300. As with movies and to a lesser extent music, I don't feel you own digital. What would you rather have, the Mona Lisa or a jpeg of it?

    Also, gone would be the thrill of the hunt trying to track down a specific issue of a title for whatever reason. Visiting comic shops (and I know they are few and far between now), digging through long boxes, trying to find a deal even on eBay, those feelings will shrink and eventually be gone.
    I'm a big collector too, but at the end of the day I do still want to read the stories. I won't feel the same level of attachment to digital (which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on it) but it absolutely should be the budget option for those who just want the story and don't care about collecting. Comics should absolutely have the impulse buy option available to casual fans. Reducing the quality of the pamphlets themselves just as some half measure won't really help in the long run, I don't think. You still have a physical media that eats a lot of space (in which we're in the middle of a minimalist trend with tiny homes in vogue), requires visits to niche stores and has a, well let's say less-than-inviting vibe to prospective fans. Let physical copies be the premium they're going to be while digital is for those books you just want to read and don't care about filling a long box. Collectors are going to want the superior product, not the cheaper one.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-02-2020 at 09:05 PM.

  15. #105
    Incredible Member Menacer's Avatar
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    I do own floppies, especially because some stories dont get collected as TPB.

    But I am not a floppy collector. I always wait for the TPBs.

    As for digital. NO. NO NO. I want real physical books. Looking at computer screens, cell phones, TVs, movie theater screens and now what... a book reader, kindle type devise.

    I read books to escape digital devises...

    I would be horrified if books and comic books all went digital.


    Also as I once owned an iphone I would by music on iTune.

    I tired of iPhones bullshit so I switched to android.

    I was shocked you cannot in anyway access music I "owed" and paid for. **** apple. I bought that music and now I cant ever access it...

    Ended up just getting spotify for my android...

    I fear a similar problem would happen. Company goes under or sold to new owner and that huge digital collection gone

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