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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    If you think comics prices are just fine, then there's no point in my saying otherwise. But I'm not "one guy" who would like to see them cut by two dollars. It's more like you're "one guy" who thinks they're fine.
    You seem to be the only person in this thread saying "Seems like a pretty good idea." That's telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    You can't make everybody happy. If you want both floppies and and collections on fancy paper, then maybe Marvel would keep doing it that way. But I bet if DC made the switch, then Marvel would too. Or they'd go bust.
    While this ain't gonna happen, don't make that bet if it does. Someone will wind up with whatever you put up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Who said anything about cutting their pay? I just posted the proof that the total production costs would be cut by two-thirds if they switch to newsprint. Alterna has already done it. You didn't click on the link, did you? Here it is again:

    http://www.comicon.com/2017/10/04/pe...t-renaissance/


    And the artists would throw fits if the floppies were printed on newsprint? What makes you think so?
    Please make a list of the creative teams working at the company you are using as your "This works." example.

    As for "What makes you think so?", what makes you think they will be just fine with it? Do you have any examples of that outside of your example company?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Since you don't believe what I say about it, you should ask Image.
    No one needs to ask Image. You can look at interviews with the creative teams that are calling their own shots at Image.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    That's really not even the topic of this thread anyway.
    If you are basing some of your assertions on information that is probably false, it isn't something everyone else should just disregard.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    If you are basing some of your assertions on information that is probably false, it isn't something everyone else should just disregard.
    How is it "false" that the Image writers make as much money those at DC and Marvel, and in some cases more? If their comics don't sell, then of course they don't make any. It's the same at DC and Marvel, because they get fired.

    Very few writers at DC sell enough copies of their comics to earn royalties. At Image, that's all you earn. You don't get a flat fee at Image the way do at DC and Marvel.

    Do you want me to start a poll about whether people would want to see the cost per issue cut by two dollars? Do you think most people would say no?
    Last edited by Trey Strain; 12-26-2017 at 06:46 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    How is it "false" that the Image writers make as much money those at DC and Marvel, and in some cases more? If their comics don't sell, then of course they don't make any. It's the same at DC and Marvel, because they get fired.

    Very few writers at DC sell enough copies of their comics to earn royalties. At Image, that's all you earn. You don't get a flat fee at Image the way do at DC and Marvel.

    Do you want me to start a poll about whether people would want to see the cost per issue cut by two dollars? Do you think most people would say no?
    Do you have a provable example of that? A link to that example?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Do you have a provable example of that? A link to that example?
    Contact Image and ask them about it, and consider it proved.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    And the artists would object if the floppies were printed on newsprint? What makes you think so?
    As for this...

    http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-brubaker.html

    OH: As a creator who has had success in work-for-hire comics, do you find that some of the pressures that come with publishing creator-owned comics are alleviated by the fact that you're kind of a "big name" in comics? Are there any pressures that are added due to your having that status?

    EB: Publishing comics like Criminal and Fatale is just as much pressure as someone with a bigger known name as it is when I started out in comics. Actually more, because the artists are getting paid upfront, so they can devote their full time to it. You constantly worry you're not selling as many copies as you should be, or not doing enough press or that you should do more store signings. And getting the comic out 10 to 12 times a year is a lot of work. People don't appreciate how difficult what Marvel and DC do every week really is, really.

    Since we started Fatale at Image, our audience has grown a lot, but I don't think I'll ever get to a point where I'm not worrying about my projects being able to succeed. For me, success on those projects has generally meant making sure the artists make enough upfront that it's worth it, but now that it's my only comics work, there's added pressure. But I like it, I prefer the kind of projects I'm doing, and I like being in charge of paper stock and things like that.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Do you have a provable example of that? A link to that example?
    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Contact Image and ask them about it, and consider it proved.
    So, you don't have an example.

  8. #68
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    The good paper won't go away. It'll be in the collections. Is that not clear?

    Yes, I have an example. Robert Kirkman is worth $20 million.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    The good paper won't go away. It'll be in the collections. Is that not clear?
    Which is not the issue(no matter how "Clear" you think you have made it). Brubaker/Phillips have made it clear that, in part, they are at Image because paper stock matters to them. To assume, based on almost nothing, that all other DC creative teams will not feel the same way makes almost no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Yes, I have an example. Robert Kirkman is worth $20 million.
    So...

    You don't have an example. You have an outlier who has made a large share of his money outside of comic sales.

  10. #70
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    In addition, you said that Image "Paid" creators about the same. You then went on to sight, as an example, someone who makes far more based on that Image operates nothing like DC/Marvel on the "Pay" front.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    How is it "false" that the Image writers make as much money those at DC and Marvel, and in some cases more? If their comics don't sell, then of course they don't make any. It's the same at DC and Marvel, because they get fired.

    Very few writers at DC sell enough copies of their comics to earn royalties. At Image, that's all you earn.
    Nothing you said here is correct.

    All writers everywhere earn royalties, no matter how few copies they sold.
    At Image you don't just get the royalties, you get the entire take of what the book sold (minus Images costs for printing etcetera). You get the entire pie DC and Marvel keep for themselves.

    At DC you get your page rate and that's it. Whether your book sold 20K of 300K, you still just get the page rate that's in your contract. And if your book gets cancelled for not selling, you don't get fired, you usually just get put on another book.

    Do you want me to start a poll about whether people would want to see the cost per issue cut by two dollars? Do you think most people would say no?
    How about instead you start a poll about whether people believe that the bulk of the cost in producing a comic is the bloody paper?

  12. #72
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    Alterna is doing it. It works. Nobody's pay is getting cut, and they're selling titles for as low as $1.

    Now maybe a few readers would get upset because they they can't get BOTH floppies and collections on 50 pound paper. But I think a lot more people are unhappy with the price of floppies than are happy, and would be very glad to see this.

    And you know what? If the market decides this is a bad idea, then DC can just go back to $3.99 prices and floppies on fancy paper. But I'd bet my lunch money that won't happen.

    Re Image: It's like a sales job. In some sales jobs, you get a base salary plus commissions. That's DC's model, although they pay very few commissions. In other sales jobs, they pay only commissions. No base salary. You're untrained and unsupervised in a job like that. I had a sales job like the latter once during summer vacation from college. It's no gig for a guy who can't sell the product, because he'll starve. Image is like the latter. Alterna is too.

    To work for them, you and they need to be confident you have a product you can sell.

  13. #73
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    This thread is built on a false premise. This suggestion has come up countless times over the years. Whenever an editor at Marvel / DC / Oni etc joins the conversation they always say the same thing - changing paper stock would not be enough to lower the retail price. These are industry professionals who know what they’re talking about.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trey Strain View Post
    Re Image: It's like a sales job. In some sales jobs, you get a base salary plus commissions. That's DC's model, although they pay very few commissions. In other sales jobs, they pay only commissions. No base salary. You're untrained and unsupervised in a job like that. I had a sales job like the latter once during summer vacation from college. It's no gig for a guy who can't sell the product, because he'll starve. Image is like the latter. Alterna is too.

    To work for them, you and they need to be confident you have a product you can sell.
    No no no.
    Image is not like a sales job. It's closer to going into business for yourself.
    Strictly speaking Image doesn't pay you at all. You pay Image, for printing and such. You get paid buy people buying your book.

  15. #75
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    One thing that occurred to me that I don't believe has been mentioned...

    The idea that you would gain a large number of readers who never read newsprint growing up? I think that assumption is a faulty one. Particularly so in a world where quite a few of those readers probably already read digital or trade wait.

    The idea that lots of them will look at what is essentially buying an inferior product for only half off and say "Yep! Sign me up!" feels a bit optimistic.

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