Who are your top 10 Batman 'sidekicks'

[BatmanJones]

I use the term somewhat loosely unlike the writer of the listicle that inspired this thread, as published in Heroic Hollywood, who used a stricter definition. But I'm interested in strict definition rankings and broader definition as explained below.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on HH's rankings, your rankings for the broader definition of sidekick as I defined it below (to include non-superheroes like Alfred and Jim Gordon), your rankings for the more strict definition of sidekick, and/or anything else you want to post about Batman's various sidekicks, costumed or not. And if you want to weigh in on any of my own rankings I'd enjoy that too.

But this is a thread for you to include YOUR rankings most of all, hopefully two sets of them according to the strict and broader definitions of "sidekick."

Here are Heroic Hollywood's rankings (in reverse order as they were published for just a little suspense):

10. Jason Todd
9. Harper Row
8. Stephanie Brown
7. Carrie Kelley
6. Duke Thomas
5. Cassandra Cain
4. Barbara Gordon
3. Damian Wayne
2. Dick Grayson
1. Tim Drake

Here's the link to the article with the reasons for their rankings:

https://heroichollywood.com/batman-s...ed-worst-best/

Here was my response to the listicle in the comments section including my own rankings, in which I was not strict about the term "sidekick" and instead argued for a broader definition of the term which made my rankings very different....

Fun list. Of course I have to disagree about the top spot, which has to be Dick Grayson for me. Some I thought should have been included but weren't (I mean if you're including Harper Row) are Catwoman, Alfred (who should probably be #1 or 2 along with Dick Grayson), and Commissioner Gordon. I'd have included Superman as well even though it's sort of a cheat. But, while I don't disagree with most of your list, mine would certainly be more like this:

1. Alfred Pennyworth (TIE)
1. Dick Grayson (TIE)
3. Commissioner Gordon
4. Barbara Gordon (Batgirl/Oracle)

And then I'd get creative with some combination of Tim, Damian, Jason, and Catwoman, who definitely needs to be listed above some you did list. I guess I'd fill out my list like this:

5. Tim Drake
6. Damian Wayne
7. Selina Kyle
8. Jason Todd
9. Cassandra Cain
10. Carrie Kelley or Superman

I'm leaving off Stephanie Brown/Spoiler, one of my faves and maybe my favorite Batgirl ever, because of her complicated relationship with Batman over the years. Has she been a great ally? Absolutely. But because she's also recently been an enemy I can't see placing her above any of the above 10 or 11.

If I were to continue my next choices would be the golden age Batwoman (Kathy Kane) and the modern one (Kate Kane). I think both make more sense as sidekicks/allies to Batman than Stephanie does. I like that she's her own woman and sort of stands apart.

I love Duke Thomas but as with Harper Row it's just too early when you consider how many other "sidekicks" Batman has had over his long history.

And I see what you were doing with Jason Todd but if you consider how Batman might rank them I expect he would be a lot higher. I think the bottom spot, if we're being funny at all, belongs to Bat-Mite.

Now here are my rankings for strictly sidekicks:

1. Dick Grayson
2. Barbara Gordon (her Oracle persona is vital to her ranking as is her Batgirl)
3. Tim Drake
4. Damian Wayne
5. Cassandra Cain
6. Stephanie Brown
7. Jason Todd
8. Kathy Kane (and Bette Kane actually - they come as a pair to me)
9. Kate Kane
10. Bat-Mite

I very nearly added Selina Kyle (somewhere between #3-6) to the above list but decided she doesn't meet the strict definition of sidekick. She is more a partner like Superman is.

I hope a lot of people will participate in this thread and that it can be a thread that's only positive, just including YOUR picks and your reasons for them if you choose to include those but hopefully not getting in scrums with those that have different rankings.

In other words I hope this a thread where people can argue in favor of their lists but without being argumentative. The arguments that sometimes invade threads here make them really no fun at all and I hope this will be only a fun thread for a lot of participants. Of course, that said, you do you. This thread is for your opinions, not my own. I've already shared mine.

[Caivu]

I don't understand what your definition of "sidekick" is. It seems like you're using it to just mean "ally", so why not just use that?

(I take major exception to either of the Batwomen being referred to as Batman's sidekick, for example.)

[oasis1313]

Batman is Alfred's sidekick. Alfred runs everything.

[adrikito]

Batman is Alfred's sidekick. Alfred runs everything.

HAHAHAHAHA.. For this Alfred is not the 1st in this list..

But I think that DICK GRAYSON, the 1ST SIDEKICK, THE 1ST ROBIN Teen Titan that created Robin legacy is the no1.. He is batman successor, He is the best of the best..

[TheCape]

Batman is Alfred's sidekick. Alfred runs everything.

Without Alfred, the whole thing falls apart.

[Aahz]

And again someone repeats the same nonsens about Jason time as Robin ...

I don't understand what your definition of "sidekick" is. It seems like you're using it to just mean "ally", so why not just use that?

(I take major exception to either of the Batwomen being referred to as Batman's sidekick, for example.)

If they count Barbara as sidekick, the Batwomen should imo also count.

If you really go by a more strict definition, I don't think that you would even get to 10 characters, because then you are down to the Robins, Alfred and Duke.

[Aahz]

While the other Robins all earned spots on the Teen Titans, Jason never became a leader on the team or a beloved part of the superhero community.

Btw. Jason was a member of the Teen Titans, and Donna actually offered him the leader ship.
And that he never became a leader of his own teenage hero team is imo mostly due to the fact that the majority of the characters of his generation were created after DITF (it would have been pretty much only him and Kid Devil).

[Frontier]

I very nearly added Selina Kyle (somewhere between #3-6) to the above list but decided she doesn't meet the strict definition of sidekick. She is more a partner like Superman is.

A sidekick can also be a partner though, since that's ostensibly what Robin is supposed to be.

I would say the same is true for Batwoman as far as their leadership of the Knights is concerned.

I don't understand what your definition of "sidekick" is. It seems like you're using it to just mean "ally", so why not just use that?

(I take major exception to either of the Batwomen being referred to as Batman's sidekick, for example.)

She's more like a John Diggle then a traditional sidekick, in that she's closer to a full-on equal and partner with Batman but regularly defers to him.

And again someone repeats the same nonsens about Jason time as Robin ...

If they count Barbara as sidekick, the Batwomen should imo also count.

If you really go by a more strict definition, I don't think that you would even get to 10 characters, because then you are down to the Robins, Alfred and Duke.

I think we should also count Babs and Cass's Batgirls considering how they worked with Batman at times (although I guess Steph also counts with the Robins).

[Assam]

I think we should also count Babs and Cass's Batgirls considering how they worked with Batman at times (although I guess Steph also counts with the Robins).

I don't think Babsgirl should count since she was/is a mostly independent agent who just defers to Batman when working with him and I could write you an essay on why Cass as Batgirl was closer to a full-on equal as you describe Batwoman to be. But I know I can be kind of obnoxious about this stuff so I won't. Steph, as you say, definitely only counts during her Robin tenure.

[Frontier]

I don't think Babsgirl should count since she was/is a mostly independent agent who just defers to Batman when working with him and I could write you an essay on why Cass as Batgirl was closer to a full-on equal as you describe Batwoman to be. But I know I can be kind of obnoxious about this stuff so I won't. Steph, as you say, definitely only counts during her Robin tenure.

I counted Batgirl because there have been enough portrayals and interpretations of her career as Batgirl with Batman to where she would count, even if it wasn't exactly the case Pre-Crisis.

There have also been takes where, if not Robin, Batman's main partner was Batgirl, so that's where I was coming from as well.

[Aahz]

I think we should also count Babs and Cass's Batgirls considering how they worked with Batman at times (although I guess Steph also counts with the Robins).

Barbara worked for the most part independently from Batman (or at least as independent as the Batwomen), Cass iirc also worked for the most part on her own (I can really remember a story where she really had a sidekick role), you could maybe count Steph but Bruce fired her iirc so fast (and iirc he actually did it twice once as Robin and once before as Spoiler) that I would tent to not count it. And appart from this she was more Tims and Cass partner than Bruce sidekick, or worked on her own.

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, if we're going with all close allies and not just sidekicks he trained:

1. Dick Grayson
2. Alfred Pennyworth
3. James Gordon
4. Barbara Gordon
5. Superman
6. Selina Kyle
7. Kate Kane
8. Damian Wayne
9. Carrie Kelly
10. Sasha Bordeaux

Just the sidekicks:

1. Dick
2. Babs
3. Damian
4. Carrie
5. Terry
WIDE GAP
6. Jason
7. Cass
8. Steph
9. Tim
10. Duke

[Assam]

Alright, guess I'll list off (Though most spots are subject to frequent change)

Counting all characters that are closely associated with Batman (I have to go with that vague a description because I don't like enough of the 'sidekicks'.):

1. Cassandra Cain
IMPOSSIBLY LARGE GAP
2. Wang Baixi
3. Stephanie Brown
4. Tim Drake
5. Renee Montoya
6. Jean-Paul Valley
7. Basil Karlo
8. Onyx Adams
9. Bilal Asselah
10. Charlotte Gage-Radcliffe

Honorable mentions to Alfred and Jason (Who just miss the cut) and Babs, who would be #2 if she'd never become Batgirl again.

[okiedokiewo]

I don't care that they ranked him last, but their description of Jason just shows they never actually read his run. Looks like, especially by their ranking of Tim as #1, they just lapped up the victim-blaming, rewriting nonsense that appeared after his death.

[Frontier]

I ranked them in terms of their effectiveness in fulfilling the role of a sidekick or partner to Batman:

1. Robin

- Dick

- Tim

- Damian

- Jason

2. Batgirl

- Cass and Babs tied.

- Steph

3. Catwoman

4. Commissioner Gordon

5. Batwoman

- Kate Kane

- Kathy Kane

6. Azrael

- Jean Paul-Valley

- Michael Lane

7. Duke

8. Batwing

- Luke Fox

- David Zavimbe

9. Red Hood

- Jason Todd

- Joker

10. Alfred