Wonder Woman 37 - SPOILERS

[adrikito]

Darkseid image with Zeus death was awesome...

I think that someone predicted Superman appearance, he was right.. But with the rest of JL here..

WE HOPE THAT THE NEXT STORY WITH DARKSEID BE MORE RESPECTFUL WITH THE MAIN CHARACTER, WONDERWOMAN...

[Agent Z]

This storyline should have been handled at the onset of the Rebirth Initiative, not crammed right now. Then, it would have followed up with Darkseid War and benefited from a relatively clean slate and greater indulgence, I think; readers would have known what to expect, they would have had time to deal with it and move along after it, whatever the outcome. It would have been better to have Jason here from issue #1 or early on and see if he worked. If not, he could have been discretely shoved away while peoples where still in the glow of Rebirth and other (better) storylines could have been pushed.

Instead, D.C. chose to let Rucka produce his hot pile of garbage which left Wonder Woman in a far worse situation, story and character-wise than he had found her. And now, we have to deal with an aimless character, who lack any and all foundation stable enough to build anything upon. Seriously, I like the Zeus origin, far over the clay one, because I don't like the vibes of eugenism (the word may be too strong, but the idea is more or less that, that's what I associate with this idea of a perfect baby being born from no real parent) and it's associated with the segregationist attitude of the Amazons (which I loath; those characters have nothing to teach to anyone), but the way Zeus was used here was stupid and forced. Azzarello actually had the right idea to shove him away and make him the damsel in distress through Zeke. he had had an agency at a time but now hadn't, which is far better than in coming to save the day, and then dying because he fails to notice what Darkseid is doing (and I wonder how it'll impact Shazam's powers, if it ever referenced in a hopefully new comics for him).

Then there is Grail, who's quickly went from one character I found extremely interesting to one I'm already losing faith in, that in the spade of what, seven issues ? She ended Darkseid War in an incredible position, trying to teach Darkseid love despite how conflicted she was and how evil was an inherent part of her. She end this storyline as her willing and happy servant. Until the very last page, I expected some kind of twist, like she had supercharged Darkseid to bring back her mother (something which would make her far more interesting, and a direct inverse mirror of that blond villain Rucka used who wanted to get her daughter back) it would have been so much more interesting, having her trying her best to actually save the only one person she ever loved, as much as she can love. Tonally speaking, it would have worked a lot better with the Wonder Woman mythos, were love is prevalent...

I can't help but think that Johns actually forced this storyline and Robinson because he remembered he had to do it but had lost any and all interest in Darkseid War and its follow-up.

This story would have sucked regardless of Rucka's run. Just like the Finch run, which necessitated Rebirth, did not need Rucka's run to be bad.

[Korath]

This story would have sucked regardless of Rucka's run. Just like the Finch run, which necessitated Rebirth, did not need Rucka's run to be bad.

True, but I can't help but think that, had it actually be planned for Rebirth's begin instead of being rushed in right now, it would have been more refined and not such a waste of potential. Grail and Jason could have been great, but instead of working on them, D.C. chose to let Rucka do his... thing, and they wasted months which mean that when they finally got to deal with Jason, they had to rush it.

[Koriand'r]

True, but I can't help but think that, had it actually be planned for Rebirth's begin instead of being rushed in right now, it would have been more refined and not such a waste of potential. Grail and Jason could have been great, but instead of working on them, D.C. chose to let Rucka do his... thing, and they wasted months which mean that when they finally got to deal with Jason, they had to rush it.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Robinson had 6 lackluster issues loaded with filler to deal with the ramifications of the Darkseid War, which ended years ago. There's a whole Shea Fontana run between Rucka and Robinson, clearly Robinson wasn't "rushed". Bashing Rucka's run (which was the last time the book was good and I actually looked forward to reading it) doesn't really help Robinson's case.

[MarquisAsh]

One thing has nothing to do with the other. Robinson had 6 lackluster issues loaded with filler to deal with the ramifications of the Darkseid War, which ended years ago. There's a whole Shea Fontana run between Rucka and Robinson, clearly Robinson wasn't "rushed". Bashing Rucka's run (which was the last time the book was good and I actually looked forward to reading it) doesn't really help Robinson's case.

I mean that’s when your opinion comes in. I liked Rucka’s run and Robinson’s run isn’t entirely bad. Diana wasn’t suppose to be the big hero. That’s why the darkseid story is continuing. This arc was about introducing Jason. Yes he had issues dedicated to him but that isn’t bad. In Rucka’s run Cheetah had her own issue and Veronica had a whole arc dedicated to her and her daughter. Diana barely appeared in those issues.

[Sacred Knight]

Rucka's run was convoluted, ill-defined crap enough on its own. But I agree its not responsible for the problems with this run (which do exist but I believe to be exaggerated). Though I still maintain DC screwed up by not doing something with this earlier instead of waiting, and I've gone on record believing this due to trying to appease Rucka because he wouldn't use things that didn't fit his ideal, but that has little to do with this run beyond however much that run might have hurt the reception of Grail and Jason finally showing up. But what affect if any that had is impossible to gauge so at this point I have to consider it negligible.

[Joao]

Instead, D.C. chose to let Rucka produce his hot pile of garbage which left Wonder Woman in a far worse situation, story and character-wise than he had found her. And now, we have to deal with an aimless character, who lack any and all foundation stable enough to build anything upon.

Rucka's foundation was pretty solid to me. He established new 52 Themyscira was a lie created by the gods. That Diana cannot return to Themyscira to avoid releasing Ares. And that no matter if daughter of Zeus or created from clay, her core values are the most important thing about her, and that remains intact.

They could go anywhere from there. Past stories are not an excuse for poor storytelling. Robinson doesn't even seem to have read what Rucka wrote.

Also, let us remember that Rucka was directly asked by DC to bring the old Wonder Woman back after the new 52. The compassionate hero we all know and love. That we can say he did.

[Sacred Knight]

They are "going anywhere" off that. You just don't like where they're going. But its still based on that foundation. This run has not contradicted anything from Rucka's stuff. This run did not contradict that the New 52 Themyscira was a lie. In fact it compounded it, it showed concretely that the real Hippolyta is still the dark haired version. It didn't say anything about Ares, so no contradiction there. In fact when Ares does come back into the fold, from solicitations we indeed know it will be based off of Rucka's revelations. So that's still all in. Whatever one thinks of the quality of the run, there is absolutely no argument to be made that it does anything to contradict or hurt what little The Lies revealed concretely. This run continues off the The Lies' foundation. Completely fair play to not like what the continuation is, but just not liking it doesn't mean its not based on it.

[Nyssane]

Same here. This story arc just makes me sad.

So this particular story is over, right? Silver Swan is next?

We get two issues of Silver Swan, and the rest seems to be more Darkseid/New Gods stuff.

[Awonder]

The story makes sense standing alone. It certainly doesn't jive completely with what Darkseid War did. I can't explain that away and certainly won't try. Its obviously a case of Johns starting something and abandoning it and having others go forward with things in their own way. Its not going to match completely. And that's definitely on all parties. But I'm just talking about the standalone story beats here in this arc alone.

Imagine saying that a movie sequel makes sense only if you haven't seen, or don't remember, the first one.

As far as Diana being driven to avenge her father despite not being close to him and acknowledging he's never been around, I'm not seeing any contradiction there. There's a difference between not being close to a blood relative who hasn't been around, and being more that comfortable voicing it and calling it out, and not caring when they're killed right in front of you.

It's not that Diana wouldn't care about someone being killed, it's that Robinson beats us on the head with it. How many times does she cry, "Father!"? She's angry at her friends for wanting to help save lives, because she wanted to fight Darkseid on behalf of her father?

Hey, where does it says that Diana doesn’t love Zeus? Diana loves and respects all the gods. She just have her opinions about them. She says they have her love but not her trus

Sure, Diana loves everyone. But, there's a difference between love and love. By that, I mean Diana does not care for Zeus the way she cares about Etta or Clark, right? But, suddenly, she's in such awe (as if she's never seen a god before) that her whole story revolves around Zeus? You will never convince me that this is quality storytelling.

... Seriously, I like the Zeus origin, far over the clay one, because I don't like the vibes of eugenism (the word may be too strong, but the idea is more or less that, that's what I associate with this idea of a perfect baby being born from no real parent) and it's associated with the segregationist attitude of the Amazons (which I loath; those characters have nothing to teach to anyone), ...

Eugenics? Say what? Because Superman is all about the superior human, the ultimate in humanity, not even being human, right? Batman is class warfare, advocating for the rich as our controlling, all-knowing guiding light? And Black Panther is racist, because where are the white people?

... but the way Zeus was used here was stupid and forced. ...

Then there is Grail, who's quickly went from one character I found extremely interesting to one I'm already losing faith in, that in the spade of what, seven issues ? She ended Darkseid War in an incredible position, trying to teach Darkseid love despite how conflicted she was and how evil was an inherent part of her. She end this storyline as her willing and happy servant. ...

At least, we seem to agree on a few things, that being this particular story is a rather poor generic use of both Grail and Zeus.

[MarquisAsh]

Imagine saying that a movie sequel makes sense only if you haven't seen, or don't remember, the first one.



It's not that Diana wouldn't care about someone being killed, it's that Robinson beats us on the head with it. How many times does she cry, "Father!"? She's angry at her friends for wanting to help save lives, because she wanted to fight Darkseid on behalf of her father?



Sure, Diana loves everyone. But, there's a difference between love and love. By that, I mean Diana does not care for Zeus the way she cares about Etta or Clark, right? But, suddenly, she's in such awe (as if she's never seen a god before) that her whole story revolves around Zeus? You will never convince me that this is quality storytelling.



Eugenics? Say what? Because Superman is all about the superior human, the ultimate in humanity, not even being human, right? Batman is class warfare, advocating for the rich as our controlling, all-knowing guiding light? And Black Panther is racist, because where are the white people?



At least, we seem to agree on a few things, that being this particular story is a rather poor generic use of both Grail and Zeus.

Diana doesn’t know him the way she knows these people but Diana is very respectful none the less.

[Awonder]

Diana doesn’t know him the way she knows these people but Diana is very respectful none the less.

I'm not talking about Diana respecting all living beings, because that isn't what's in the story. The story is all about making sure it's crystal clear that Zeus is Diana's "Father." Father. Father. Father. ... This is all about emphasizing the redefining of WW in patriarchal terms. Just look at the title of this arch; then see the proof on the page.

[MarquisAsh]

I'm not talking about Diana respecting all living beings, because that isn't what's in the story. The story is all about making sure it's crystal clear that Zeus is Diana's "Father." Father. Father. Father. ... This is all about emphasizing the redefining of WW in patriarchal terms. Just look at the title of this arch; then see the proof on the page.

That’s the point of him being her father right? For more story telling in her mythos. It seems none of the writers at DC truly know what to do with her old backstory so they are making something new.

[sakuyamons]

That’s the point of him being her father right? For more story telling in her mythos. It seems none of the writers at DC truly know what to do with her old backstory so they are making something new.

They don’t know what to do with origin either, other than some daddy issues.

Sigh. At least I’ll always have the old trades.

[Doctor Bifrost]

That’s the point of him being her father right? For more story telling in her mythos. It seems none of the writers at DC truly know what to do with her old backstory so they are making something new.

You mean that the writers didn't know what to do with her rich, deep, female-centric mythos and origin that was based on her relationship with her mother, her sister Amazons, and the goddesses of Greek myth? So they made something new that they could write about: a Very Powerful Father who is a male god, and a twin brother.

I wonder what it was about those changes that made it more understandable to them.

I think a better solution would have been to hire a better writer (better for the character and her mythos, that is), who understood the themes and symbolism of the character and her origin, and was comfortable working with them.

But that's just me. Or maybe not just me.