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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by ariwl1 View Post
    I think the story is just progressing really fast in time. Kitty wanted teams on the ground in an hour and with so many X-Men available she didn't really need to wait for teen Jean.

    Also, it's possible she may be feeling regrets about not taking Jean too seriously when she first came to her with concerns about the Phoenix. Nobody but the former Phoenix hosts entertained her fears for more than a few minutes.
    Now that they know for a fact it's the Phoenix, they should be contacting Jeen on speed dial.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Starting to get a “Kobic” vibe creating characters in Captain America, about this Jean Grey.

    I was never that convinced as Rosenberg was Jean Grey was the heart and soul of the X-Men. They fridged her for a reason, so Jean is just another Gwen Stacy they couldn’t write anymore. For Rosenberg to do something about that image of Jean Grey, he is going to have to delve right back into the Jean Scott relationship and make it more relevant or better than Emma Frost was with Scott. To me, Jean was a very vanilla character with no personality - Just a prop as a token female in a male world, like Sue Richards was for a while, until Sue grew some balls. Rosenberg is going to have to grow Jean some balls.
    No, they don't have to go back into the Jean/Scott relationship. He is dead, and moved on. Since Jean died the X-Men have also gone downhill, as many of the core characters have been made into semi villains and killed off, or just killed off. Xavier, Cyclops, and Wolverine were all killed off.

  3. #303
    Incredible Member PhoenixStudies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So what are we saying here? Jean wanted to kill Annie? Any way you try to connect telekinesis to Annie’s death to Jean here makes Jean this horrible person, and I don’t think the writers were going for that.
    No, I think it should have been an accident.

    Although, pre-teens and teens do have horrible thoughts sometimes. Maybe she momentarily fantasized about her friend being run over by a car and then *boom* it happens.

    Maybe the trauma wasn't just experiencing Annie's death, maybe it was also guilt.

  4. #304
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    I was never that convinced as Rosenberg was Jean Grey was the heart and soul of the X-Men. They fridged her for a reason, so Jean is just another Gwen Stacy they couldn’t write anymore. For Rosenberg to do something about that image of Jean Grey, he is going to have to delve right back into the Jean Scott relationship and make it more relevant or better than Emma Frost was with Scott. To me, Jean was a very vanilla character with no personality - Just a prop as a token female in a male world, like Sue Richards was for a while, until Sue grew some balls. Rosenberg is going to have to grow Jean some balls.
    Jean was a powerful psionic and no-nonsense bad ass with or without Scott for a very long time before Morrison foolishly killed her. She was also a caring and nurturing person, one of the biggest on the team. I'm sorry your reading experiences with Jean haven't revealed those sides of her ample personality to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixStudies View Post
    No, I think it should have been an accident.

    Although, pre-teens and teens do have horrible thoughts sometimes. Maybe she momentarily fantasized about her friend being run over by a car and then *boom* it happens.

    Maybe the trauma wasn't just experiencing Annie's death, maybe it was also guilt.
    Well she threw the frisbee, so of course there was guilt there. It has never been stated that Jean's telekinetic powers were a factor in Annie's death, and anything to that effect is purely speculation. No evidence she fantasized about it, etc.

  6. #306
    Extraordinary Member AcesX1X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    Well she threw the frisbee, so of course there was guilt there. It has never been stated that Jean's telekinetic powers were a factor in Annie's death, and anything to that effect is purely speculation. No evidence she fantasized about it, etc.
    and it has never been stated that they weren't ... the simple fact is we don't really know what happened that day, except that jean's powers activated in the moments of annie's death, and jean was traumatized by it ..

  7. #307
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    Well sure. Lots of things, infinite things, haven't been said.

    How silly.

  8. #308
    Incredible Member Agatha's Ghost's Avatar
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    Annabelle was young but not a child. No one that age just runs into traffic like that. It's as if she suddenly became hysterical about catching that frisbee. It's unnatural. Whether or not Jean is guilty in fact, she clearly believes herself to have been at fault.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Jean was a powerful psionic and no-nonsense bad ass with or without Scott for a very long time before Morrison foolishly killed her. She was also a caring and nurturing person, one of the biggest on the team. I'm sorry your reading experiences with Jean haven't revealed those sides of her ample personality to you.
    Jean had become no nonsense as the original Marvel Girl in the green dress. At that point she's singe handedly beaten Magneto, the Hulk, and the Juggernaught. She was already the most powerful member of the o5. Then she became Phoenix.

    Even in the 90s she dismantled Prime Sentinels by just thinking it, shattered Fitzroy's supposedly indestructible armor by just thinking it, etc.

  10. #310
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha's Ghost View Post
    Annabelle was young but not a child. No one that age just runs into traffic like that. It's as if she suddenly became hysterical about catching that frisbee. It's unnatural. Whether or not Jean is guilty in fact, she clearly believes herself to have been at fault.
    I'd love to delve into your psychology and why you're seemingly obsessed with a young girl killing another young girl then experiencing the death.
    Making a one off joke about it and moving on is one thing but this harping on it is rather disturbing.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha's Ghost View Post
    Annabelle was young but not a child. No one that age just runs into traffic like that. It's as if she suddenly became hysterical about catching that frisbee. It's unnatural. Whether or not Jean is guilty in fact, she clearly believes herself to have been at fault.
    This is you making stuff up and projecting onto what was written.

    What was written is that Annie ran into the traffic.

    Proof that no one that age just runs into the traffic, btw? Even if it is unrealistic, that has nothing to do with what was written and published.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I'd love to delve into your psychology and why you're seemingly obsessed with a young girl killing another young girl then experiencing the death.
    Making a one off joke about it and moving on is one thing but this harping on it is rather disturbing.
    I've thought about this some more and they have some points. I don't think Claremont intended to convey Jean's powers actively killed Annie, but there are some serious plotholes in that origin story. But that's classic Claremont too, he always left a lot of mysteries.
    Last edited by WallStreeter; 01-01-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #313
    Incredible Member Agatha's Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I'd love to delve into your psychology and why you're seemingly obsessed with a young girl killing another young girl then experiencing the death.
    Making a one off joke about it and moving on is one thing but this harping on it is rather disturbing.
    Although I am a Wiccan and consider myself gothic, my psychology isn't in question and I wasn't making a joke. There's no need to get personal. I want the story to be the best story that it can be, and hagiography does not make for a good story. Jean Grey became the Dark Phoenix. She also became the child-sacrificing Goblyn Queen. I read her origin when I began reading comic books when I was fifteen, and I always thought there was more to Annie's death than a mere traumatic kernel. If I can accept Wanda Maximoff's dark side and embrace the character, then I can accept the non-virginal waitress sides to Jean.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    This is you making stuff up and projecting onto what was written.

    What was written is that Annie ran into the traffic.

    Proof that no one that age just runs into the traffic, btw? Even if it is unrealistic, that has nothing to do with what was written and published.
    Annie ran into traffic for no reason with a burgeoning telekine and telepath with her.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha's Ghost View Post
    Although I am a Wiccan and consider myself gothic, my psychology isn't in question and I wasn't making a joke. There's no need to get personal. I want the story to be the best story that it can be, and hagiography does not make for a good story. Jean Grey became the Dark Phoenix. She also became the child-sacrificing Goblyn Queen. I read her origin when I began reading comic books when I was fifteen, and I always thought there was more to Annie's death than a mere traumatic kernel. If I can accept Wanda Maximoff's dark side and embrace the character, then I can accept the non-virginal waitress sides to Jean.
    https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/phoenix-iv/page/0/1

    https://www.google.es/search?q=jean+...jvUHJlzPRrLTM:

    All published accounts indicate Annie ran out into the street in front of a blind curve and a car just ran over her. That's when Jean's telepathic powers were triggered.

    Now, if you want to take that story apart it's got inconsistencies one could drive a car through, so I can see why you might want to put more in there.

    A car just ran over a child and apparently continued on it's way? That's pure homicide. The driver should have stopped and gone to the nearest house and called for help (no cellphones then). So I can see why some posters think there might be more to how Annie got killed than was told, but officially the story is that she simply ran after a frisbee. PS: I also don't think a 10 year old is that likely to run out in traffic like that, so I chalk this mostly to Claremont just doing a bad job in writing this story.

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