Jedi vs Sith

[The Dork Knight]

TEAM JEDI
Luke
Yoda
Obi Wan
Qui Gon
Rey
Windu

TEAM SITH
Vader
Emperor
Dooku
Maul
Kylo
Snoke

ROUND 1: Movie feats only
ROUND 2: All current canon feats

All combatants at peak capacity

[StupidMoniker]

Well, in the movies Palpatine beat Yoda, Dooku beat Kenobi, Maul beat Jin, Kylo and Rey each took one victory off the other, Vader and Luke each took one victory off the other, and obviously Snoke and Windu never faced each other, but Windu beat Palpatine (until Anakin interfered) and Snoke dominated Rey. I would say team Sith has an edge in Round 1.

[choptop]

Why are kylo and snoke on team sith?

[The Dork Knight]

Because they are clearly aligned to the dark side of the force? We don't actually see that many movie Sith so close enough I guess

[choptop]

Because they are clearly aligned to the dark side of the force? We don't actually see that many movie Sith so close enough I guess

O ya I was just wondering if they were sith in the new comics or it's info left out of the movies.

[The Dork Knight]

Well, in the movies Palpatine beat Yoda, Dooku beat Kenobi, Maul beat Jin, Kylo and Rey each took one victory off the other, Vader and Luke each took one victory off the other, and obviously Snoke and Windu never faced each other, but Windu beat Palpatine (until Anakin interfered) and Snoke dominated Rey. I would say team Sith has an edge in Round 1.

Please note all combatants are at peak capacity. Also Palpatine only "beat" Yoda with a situational advantage. Also Obi Wan beat Maul and was later able to match Anakin in an extended duel even before *high ground*, the same Anakin that beat Dooku

[Carabas]

Please note all combatants are at peak capacity. Also Palpatine only "beat" Yoda with a situational advantage. Also Obi Wan beat Maul and was later able to match Anakin in an extended duel even before *high ground*, the same Anakin that beat Dooku

Fights tend to be more rocks/paper/scissors than 'I beat you so I can beat anybody you ever beat'.

[wjowski]

Please note all combatants are at peak capacity. Also Palpatine only "beat" Yoda with a situational advantage. Also Obi Wan beat Maul and was later able to match Anakin in an extended duel even before *high ground*, the same Anakin that beat Dooku

Palpatine's 'situational advantage' consisted of having much better TK than Yoda from what I recall.

[The Dork Knight]

Palpatine's 'situational advantage' consisted of having much better TK than Yoda from what I recall.

No it consisted of him not being on the edge of a pod and still only just about managing to hold on

[The Dork Knight]

Fights tend to be more rocks/paper/scissors than 'I beat you so I can beat anybody you ever beat'.

Not really? Dooku was beaten "clean" by an improved Anakin, with the implication being Obi Wan had also improved during this period. And still Yoda outright told him he wasn't good enough to take on Palpatine. But he does get into an extended saber + force duel with Anakin without him managing to overpower Kenobi like he did Dooku.

It's a different thing that fighters use the environment or situations to perform better or worse but it's still clear that some Force users are better than others in a straight up fight, sample the Emperor beating multiple Jedi before losing to Windu

[The Arbiter]

No it consisted of him not being on the edge of a pod and still only just about managing to hold on

I was about to say this.

If in doubt, watch the fight again. They were very closely matched. His tiny body was literally just in a bad spot when the final clash occurred.

I suppose it did look like Palpatine was tossing stuff a bit more easily than yoda prior to that, but he was working with gravity, not against.

[The Arbiter]

....doesn't Obi Wan getting thrashed by Dooku but then matching the guy who beat Dooku kind of prove the whole "rock paper scissors" thing?

[The Dork Knight]

....doesn't Obi Wan getting thrashed by Dooku but then matching the guy who beat Dooku kind of prove the whole "rock paper scissors" thing?

Not when the thing with which that is accomplished is a straight up lightsaber duel involving at one point an equal force struggle which ends with both of them being pushed backwards as in the Yoda /Sidious fight and they canonically gain more experience (and Anakin's is explicitly noted upon) in the Clone Wars.

To put it another way, Dooku is defeated in a straight up duel. Obi Wan is not, in an extended version of the same. It's only a Rock/paper/scissors thing when something different is used, some other element. A good example of this would be say Windu's thing (or what used to be his thing dunno if it's canon anymore) which is not straight up use of the force and a lightsaber duel.

[The Arbiter]

Not when the thing with which that is accomplished is a straight up lightsaber duel involving at one point an equal force struggle which ends with both of them being pushed backwards as in the Yoda /Sidious fight and they canonically gain more experience (and Anakin's is explicitly noted upon) in the Clone Wars.

To put it another way, Dooku is defeated in a straight up duel. Obi Wan is not, in an extended version of the same. It's only a Rock/paper/scissors thing when something different is used, some other element. A good example of this would be say Windu's thing (or what used to be his thing dunno if it's canon anymore) which is not straight up use of the force and a lightsaber duel.

Before I go further, how much time passes between killing Dooku and the final fight? Are you implying that Obi Wan gained vast improvements during the beginning and end of that movie?

[Buried Alien]

No it consisted of him not being on the edge of a pod and still only just about managing to hold on

And an army of Clone Troopers to reinforce him.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)