Irredeemable Characters?

[Silver Fang]

You have characters like Magneto & Sabretooth who are pronounced as irredeemable and many fans hate or can't buy them as anti-heroes. You got Emma, who had an entire thread on her. She was in the middle with mixed reviews.

You got characters like Daken & Deadpool that aren't any better than the former three, but have easily been accepted as anti-heroes by many. They both love killing, have a sadistic streak, and regret none of their past sins. Xavier had sympathy for Magneto and said he understood his actions. On the flip, Boomer said Magneto was worse than Creed.

So, why are characters like Deadpool & Daken ok. But Emma, Sabretooth, and Magneto are so controversial? Sadly, this will be tough because Marvel is so inconsistent. So all these characters have polar opposite characterizations & numerous stories for anyone's argument.

[donpricetag]

Anything is possible when written to be. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the fact that these changes cannot occur overnight. Marvel has a bad habit of using microwave change. Characters just simply behave out of character and it's chalked up to being "continuity -lite" or off panel discussion. Any character can go any direction, but for the readers to embrace and accept it, it has to be done naturally and logically with the right amount of motivation. AKA long form story telling. A practice Marvel seems to be moving away from because they believe readers are so warpped by social media that we have low attention spans. The part about social media effecting attention spans my be true, but thats more a generational issue. Though they seem to want to ignore this fact, I find it to true more often than not; most serious comic book readers are well over 25 years of age if not just flat-out middle aged. People are reading less and less these days, the only ones that appear to still be reading are the same ones that were reading two decades ago. I think we can handle some character development.

[Anduinel]

I think a lot of people are willing to give Deadpool a pass because he has significant stretches where he honestly and sincerely tries to do the right thing. (If, you know, you accept that variations on "I'll just kill the people who deserve it!" by someone with a very broken moral compass count as trying to do the right thing.) And yeah, it varies from writer to writer.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

You have characters like Magneto & Sabretooth who are pronounced as irredeemable and many fans hate or can't buy them as anti-heroes. You got Emma, who had an entire thread on her. She was in the middle with mixed reviews.

You got characters like Daken & Deadpool that aren't any better than the former three, but have easily been accepted as anti-heroes by many. They both love killing, have a sadistic streak, and regret none of their past sins. Xavier had sympathy for Magneto and said he understood his actions. On the flip, Boomer said Magneto was worse than Creed.

So, why are characters like Deadpool & Daken ok. But Emma, Sabretooth, and Magneto are so controversial? Sadly, this will be tough because Marvel is so inconsistent. So all these characters have polar opposite characterizations & numerous stories for anyone's argument.

Speaking for Daken, he's only been around 10 years, and he's only been written as a straight-up villain for roughly half that time. Since his solo ended, it seems he's been gravitating more toward anti-hero territory, especially in regards to his relationship with Laura.

With Creed, even when he was in the X-Books, he was always written as an @$$hole: they had to have measures in place to keep him under wraps, whether that's restraining gauntlets, exploding/electric collars or good ole' fashioned chains. That only changed with the inversion in Axis, which a lot of people (and writers, if we're being honest) never took a liking to, so they've been trying to undo that while still keeping him on an X-team, which doesn't work. Remender seemed like he had a plan, but then he bailed shortly after Uncanny Avengers (v2) started. Bunn was doing great work with him, but then his Uncanny ended. Pak, however, has been doing a horrific job with almost everything about the character. Pure dreck.

A lot of people let Magneto on an X-Team fly because Claremont did it ... and because he's so damn cool.

Emma, it seems, is one people want to keep reformed, but Marvel's dead-set on making her a psycho villain again despite her being on the side of angels for the last 20 or so years.

Deadpool...I just don't freaking get. I can see why you'd put him on an X-Force squad, but the guy shouldn't be anywhere close to any respectable super hero team. Marvel only lets writers get away with it because he's popular and helps move books.

[Silver Fang]

Speaking for Daken, he's only been around 10 years, and he's only been written as a straight-up villain for roughly half that time. Since his solo ended, it seems he's been gravitating more toward anti-hero territory, especially in regards to his relationship with Laura.

This was my argument. It was a small discussion on reddit. But I consider Daken to be just as evil and disgusting as Creed. ONLY thing Creed has over him is seniority. Creed is 40 years old, and had a 3 year inversion-break in that time. So we saw more of his evil than Daken & Deadpool. But even with that, seems clear both are equally as bad as he is. If they can change, damn near anyone can.

And you have people gushing over Daken & Laura. But when Sabretooth gets the same, people wanna vomit. He seemed to be developing a romance or good friendship with Monet. But needless to say 98% of fans reading, acted like it was the most horrible thing in the world that he cared for her and that she might have a soft spot for him.

With Creed, even when he was in the X-Books, he was always written as an @$$hole: they had to have measures in place to keep him under wraps, whether that's restraining gauntlets, exploding/electric collars or good ole' fashioned chains. That only changed with the inversion in Axis, which a lot of people (and writers, if we're being honest) never took a liking to, so they've been trying to undo that while still keeping him on an X-team, which doesn't work. Remender seemed like he had a plan, but then he bailed shortly after Uncanny Avengers (v2) started. Bunn was doing great work with him, but then his Uncanny ended. Pak, however, has been doing a horrific job with almost everything about the character. Pure dreck.

I can see why some are turned-off with it, due to the magic tampering aspect. But Angel was the same way in Buffy. He got his shot at redemption by magically being given a soul again. So he tried to redeem himself after 200 years of being a sadistic monster. If Sabretooth had been allowed to get a proper redemption arc, and rode with being a hero for a few years, I think it could've been good. But since AXIS, he's only had small guest roles in books. The two books where he was starring & gonna have writers really work with him got axed -Avengers + Uncanny. Then he ended up with Rosenberg & Pak, who just villainized him again. Redemption doesn't happen over-night. But some characters have stayed in a bad place for 15+ years because writers don't let them go froward long and develop. And the second they do, it's all undone by another writer.

Then people are willing to accept the Freudian Excuses for Daken, but Creed has them too. Both can be considered psychologically messed up due to abuse. But for some reason, it only counts on Daken. But on Creed, it's a cop-out. And even Creed has shown some mercy, love, and genuine concern for others while he was evil.

Deadpool & Daken got what Creed hasn't had in years. Respect. Daniel Way was the low point of Deadpool. But both got numerous years to build their anti-hero legacy. Meanwhile, Creed got started on a good note, then fell off again because most writers seem to only value him as something to make Logan look good. So he's written as a joke & caricature 98% of the time.

Emma, it seems, is one people want to keep reformed, but Marvel's dead-set on making her a psycho villain again despite her being on the side of angels for the last 20 or so years.

She seems the most mixed. With fans equally divided on her. She definitely doesn't get the hate Sabretooth & Magneto get. lol But Marvel may be the same on her. They want her to be the villain and foil, probably even more so with Jean coming back. But fans are wanting her to stay an anti-hero. She's another character who's falling off with little respect, it seems.

Deadpool...I just don't freaking get. I can see why you'd put him on an X-Force squad, but the guy shouldn't be anywhere close to any respectable super hero team. Marvel only lets writers get away with it because he's popular and helps move books.

Not to mention Deadpool constantly screws everyone over. He's been given numerous chances to be a hero, and he always ends up sided with villains and causing trouble. Only to be forgiven after a short time in the doghouse. His own editor and writer -White & Duggan have stated he's a bad person who mostly thinks of himself. And reading the comics, you can clearly see that. How selfish & one-sided Wade actually is.

[Jaddor]

alex summers.


can never get passed he dumping lorna on the alter for two of the most unlikeable xmen characters ever created, nurse annie and her son...don't even remember his name.

[Slicknickshady]

alex summers.


can never get passed he dumping lorna on the alter for two of the most unlikely xmen characters ever created, nurse annie and her son...don't even remember his name.

Then her son got possessed and we have seen neither since.

[Gray Lensman]

I always considered Daken the opposite side of the evil coin (bad penny?) to Creed. The latter often seems to revel in being the beast (calling back Logan's struggles) while the former is entirely the man, but still just as big a monster.

[ChildOfTheAtom]

Can Vulcan rejoin the forces of good iyo?

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

Then people are willing to accept the Freudian Excuses for Daken, but Creed has them too. Both can be considered psychologically messed up due to abuse. But for some reason, it only counts on Daken. But on Creed, it's a cop-out. And even Creed has shown some mercy, love, and genuine concern for others while he was evil.

With Creed, in addition to not liking the inversion mechanic, we've seen a lot more of the skeletons in Creed's closet, and that knowing that much more about the kind of person he was makes his heel-turn that much less palatable to people. Also, I see that you've read Mary Shelley Overdrive. Nice.

Deadpool & Daken got what Creed hasn't had in years. Respect. Daniel Way was the low point of Deadpool. But both got numerous years to build their anti-hero legacy. Meanwhile, Creed got started on a good note, then fell off again because most writers seem to only value him as something to make Logan look good. So he's written as a joke & caricature 98% of the time.

Agreed.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

Can Vulcan rejoin the forces of good iyo?

Last I knew, he's been dead since War of Kings. So...no?

[ChildOfTheAtom]

Last I knew, he's been dead since War of Kings. So...no?

Nobody stays dead forever except Thunderbird

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

Nobody stays dead forever except Thunderbird

Funny how that "Nobody stays dead except..." list keeps shrinking.

[Tycon]

Who considers Magneto irredeemable? I'd wager he not only has been on the side of good or moral ambiguity than bad but he has some actual valid points.

[Ambaryerno]

Who considers Magneto irredeemable? I'd wager he not only has been on the side of good or moral ambiguity than bad but he has some actual valid points.

Yeah, I've VERY rarely seen Magneto treated by fans as irredeemable. At least those who do are a pretty damn small minority.