Irredeemable Characters?

[wano]

"nazi" isn't an interchangeable term for "bad guys." Cap was a bad guy, he wasn't a Nazi. Magneto making deals with bad guys isn't the same as making deals with Nazis.

Tell that to the Democrats.

Anyways... Is madelyne Pryor redeemable?

[DurararaFTW]

"nazi" isn't an interchangeable term for "bad guys." Cap was a bad guy, he wasn't a Nazi. Magneto making deals with bad guys isn't the same as making deals with Nazis.

I'm hardly saying every bad guy is a nazi. I'm saying specifically Steve Rogers, the guys that worked for Red Skull, during WWII when Red Skull consequently was still operating under Hitler, who was trying to win the war for Germany, the guy who was shown to as a boy look at Hitler posters and think "If only I could help [fight the cursed Allies]", is a Nazi, as much as Red Skull still is in this day and age.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

I'm hardly saying every bad guy is a nazi. I'm saying specifically Steve Rogers, the guys that worked for Red Skull, during WWII when Red Skull consequently was still operating under Hitler, who was trying to win the war for Germany, the guy who was shown to as a boy look at Hitler posters and think "If only I could help [fight the cursed Allies]", is a Nazi, as much as Red Skull still is in this day and age.

Except he didn't work for the Skull during WWII, he tried to leave when the Skull took over.

[Michael Watkins]

I'm hardly saying every bad guy is a nazi. I'm saying specifically Steve Rogers, the guys that worked for Red Skull, during WWII when Red Skull consequently was still operating under Hitler, who was trying to win the war for Germany, the guy who was shown to as a boy look at Hitler posters and think "If only I could help [fight the cursed Allies]", is a Nazi, as much as Red Skull still is in this day and age.

you're one of those who ignore parts of the story that contradicts the hydra-cap-is-a-Nazi stuff, huh? answer for everyone why he murdered the Red Skull/chucked him out of a window. this ought to be rich.

[DurararaFTW]

Except he didn't work for the Skull during WWII, he tried to leave when the Skull took over.

There is a pretty big ocean seperating Eliza from Red Skull and Rogers. Captain America wasn't in a position to go visit NY for an off the books 2 minute retirement in the 40s whenever he wanted. He's not Spider-Man. WWII doesn't give the weekends off. Red Skull and Rogers had their confrontation, Rogers lost, bowed and submitted to Red Skull to save his own neck and sometime of him working for Red Skull without hope or secret plans later Eliza cornered him. Again, he doesn't like Red Skull, lots of Nazis didn't. But he is and was the guy that was just following orders regardless of where that put him respective of the Holocaust. That's who Magneto made a deal with.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

There is a pretty big ocean seperating Eliza from Red Skull and Rogers. Captain America wasn't in a position to go visit NY for an off the books 2 minute retirement in the 40s whenever he wanted. He's not Spider-Man. WWII doesn't give the weekends off. Red Skull and Rogers had their confrontation, Rogers lost, bowed and submitted to Red Skull to save his own neck and sometime of him working for Red Skull without hope or secret plans later Eliza cornered him. Again, he doesn't like Red Skull, lots of Nazis didn't. But he is and was the guy that was just following orders regardless of where that put him respective of the Holocaust. That's who Magneto made a deal with.

For starters, he didn't submit to save his own neck. He submitted to save Eliza and Zemo.

Second, you're assuming a lot of stuff happened between panels. Where in the issues did we see Cap working for the Skull during WWII? Or where was it stated that he did?

[DurararaFTW]

For starters, he didn't submit to save his own neck. He submitted to save Eliza and Zemo.

Second, you're assuming a lot of stuff happened between panels. Where in the issues did we see Cap working for the Skull during WWII? Or where was it stated that he did?

I don't assume Captain America continued fighting in World War II. We both know he did continue fighting in World War II, 1945s Captain America (or for that matter Corporal Steve Rogers) isn't someone that can just screw off to another continent with no plans of coming back and then later change his mind. That would be headline news. There would be a court martial. Burden of proof does not rest on me that this didn't happen. Eliza went to find Steve. She found him. I have to assume he was wherever Hydra, that organisation busy fighting WWII on behalf of a Nazi that she was part off, informed her he was.

[Dum Dum Dugan]

I don't assume Captain America continued fighting in World War II. We both know he did continue fighting in World War II, 1945s Captain America (or for that matter Corporal Steve Rogers) isn't someone that can just screw off to another continent with no plans of coming back and then later change his mind. That would be headline news. There would be a court martial. Burden of proof does not rest on me that this didn't happen. Eliza went to find Steve. She found him. I have to assume he was wherever Hydra, that organisation busy fighting WWII on behalf of a Nazi that she was part off, informed her he was.

His confrontation with the Skull and the following scene with Eliza both happened in 1945. There's nothing in the issue to suggest that much time passed between them.

Not to mention, the following issue has Cap and Eliza traveling to England, before he went to Japan in Secret Empire #0, all still in 1945. So he obviously wasn't still fighting in WWII at that point.

You're assuming Hydra Cap's timeline is the same as the 616 timeline.

[924COLLECTIVE]

The road to redemption can make for very powerful stories. No character should be exempt from some level of redemption.