Christopher Priest should write The Flash next

[BohemiaDrinker]

While I definitely want to see old, limboed teen character come back, I wouldn't want Starfire, BB and Raven on the Titans. Maybe Kory alone, but Titans can't even juggle having 7 members, let alone 10. Yes, Devin Grayson was able to make a masterful run with a 10 member team, but that really only works when you have single-issue stories that still tie together, and not character focused arcs.

But couldn't that change as well? Titans as it is now is clearly not doing it for a lot of people - myself included, as much as it pains me to say it - so why not a change in direction?

[Assam]

But couldn't that change as well? Titans as it is now is clearly not doing it for a lot of people - myself included, as much as it pains me to say it - so why not a change in direction?

There are obviously a lot of things DC could do to improve. I'm just saying that bringing NTT into continuity alone won't do crap for the book, despite many people claiming it would be a quick fix.

[BohemiaDrinker]

There are obviously a lot of things DC could do to improve. I'm just saying that bringing NTT into continuity alone won't do crap for the book, despite many people claiming it would be a quick fix.

Oh, on that note I agree. As I said, I think it could be beneficial if something was done with it, but doing for the sake of doing it would really make no difference.

[Frontier]

Not that I'm against in anyway bringing NTT back into continuity, but how exactly would that help? Of the 7 members of the team, only 4 of them had significance in that era and Roy's the only one who would gain something from it being canon again (Lian, which is hopefully already happening) Dick's already Nightwing and has a past relationship with Kory, Wally was awful in NTT and only became the character we love today after he left and Donna, while the heart of that team, didn't exactly get much in the way of development. The characters that history would actually benefit are all in Teen Titans or Justice League.

I would appreciate it being clear that Starfire was a Titan before the current team. All this continuity wrangling going on and that's still ambiguous.

I've seen some people in the Dick Appreciation Thread discuss the fact that there's really no clear origin for the Nightwing identity right now, so having that back would be nice since it was also supposed to be covered in Lazarus Contract but wasn't.

They're already bringing back stuff from NTT for Wally with Magenta appearing soon. Now I guess we just assume it happened with the Fab Five + Lilith, which just feels weird to me like it was in Lazarus Contract where they're the ones who had the confrontation with Grant.

If restoring her NTT history makes Donna feel more like herself, I would be all for-it. Then again, that would probably necessitate yet another origin story .

[SiegePerilous02]

Not that I'm against in anyway bringing NTT back into continuity, but how exactly would that help? Of the 7 members of the team, only 4 of them had significance in that era and Roy's the only one who would gain something from it being canon again (Lian, which is hopefully already happening) Dick's already Nightwing and has a past relationship with Kory, Wally was awful in NTT and only became the character we love today after he left and Donna, while the heart of that team, didn't exactly get much in the way of development. The characters that history would actually benefit are all in Teen Titans or Justice League.

It wouldn't be an automatic fix, but the lack of history isn't benefiting anything either. Everything feels so hollow: Roy doesn't have his daughter (the most interesting plot element he's had), there is no clear origin story for the Nightwing identity, Gar and Raven aren't allowed to be adults with the rest of them for some strange reason, Vic has had all of his significant relationships stripped from him, and Donna's been a hot mess ever since the first Crisis screwed her up and separated her from her mother and sister. Yeah, Wally sucked in NTT, but he doesn't have any of the history that came after that either to my knowledge, and having it in his background doesn't mean his personality has to revert, which is the point of growing up.

The fact that it was the franchise's most popular era and not all of the characters from it being in the main Titans book really doesn't make any sense. Cyborg can stay with the League I guess as long as he was a Titan first, but Starfire and a Beast Boy and Raven who were the ages they are meant to be would be better served with their peers. Does anyone actually like the direction of them being stuck babysitting Damian? And almost every character has fans that are interested in them, but from a marketing perspective it doesn't make sense to exclude the characters who are a proven success (Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy) and feature the ones who never really took off to the same degree (Lilith, Bumblebee, etc). That wouldn't solve the problem of good character writing by itself, which is why I think Abnett needs to go. This franchise needs a kick in the pants in the worst way.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Does anyone actually like the direction of them being stuck babysitting Damian?

What bothers me most here is that they're putting these characters in equal footing to Damian. I know he has top genetics and lifelong training and genius IQ and etc, but he is still a novice, and yet he's leading characters that at one point were JL material. It does feel weird - even if the book has been solid (and it has, despite me not liking the direction).

Now, I know that we're not supposed to want too much at once, but I do think that the solution to the mess was to put everyone back at his or her generation, and maybe have one more team? Say, Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice?

[Frontier]

Now, I know that we're not supposed to want too much at once, but I do think that the solution to the mess was to put everyone back at his or her generation, and maybe have one more team? Say, Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice?

Ideally I think this would be great, assuming each book had a good creative team and direction.

[SiegePerilous02]

Now, I know that we're not supposed to want too much at once, but I do think that the solution to the mess was to put everyone back at his or her generation, and maybe have one more team? Say, Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice?

Probably a good idea. Not everyone is a fan of each generation of young heroes/sidekicks, mixing them together hasn't always yielded good results. Fans of the YJ4 didn't like the angsty writing they got when they transitioned over to the Titans franchise and fans of Vic/Kory/Gary/Raven weren't wild that they had to play babysitters in a team with the word "teen" still in it. And that was before they de-aged Gar along with Raven.

Separate the generations again with Titans (Dick's), YJ (Tim's) and come up with another name for the third (Damian's). And never again the three shall meet.

[TheNomadicOne]

Probably a good idea. Not everyone is a fan of each generation of young heroes/sidekicks, mixing them together hasn't always yielded good results. Fans of the YJ4 didn't like the angsty writing they got when they transitioned over to the Titans franchise and fans of Vic/Kory/Gary/Raven weren't wild that they had to play babysitters in a team with the word "teen" still in it. And that was before they de-aged Gar along with Raven.

Separate the generations again with Titans (Dick's), YJ (Tim's) and come up with another name for the third (Damian's). And never again the three shall meet.

As much as I would love a new name for Damians team, I can't really think off the top of my head a good name that doesn't sound super corny

[Assam]

Roy doesn't have his daughter (the most interesting plot element he's had)

I agree, but as I said, that's the one major takeaway and she's hopefully coming back soon. It's not as if, even if it was decided 'NTT is canon now', Lian, along with all the other changes, would suddenly pop into their lives without explanation. If DC wanted to go that route, we wouldn't be bothering with Rebirth and the one-shot would have just led into a new universe that includes a lot of Pre-FP elements.

there is no clear origin story for the Nightwing identity

While that is something which should be cleared up, it would in no way affect anything.

Gar and Raven aren't allowed to be adults with the rest of them for some strange reason

I agree that Gar and Rachel should be adults (especially Gar) but we're just talking about the main Titans book, which they are not in.

Vic has had all of his significant relationships stripped from him

Again, I agree, but irrelevant to the main Titans book.

and Donna's been a hot mess ever since the first Crisis screwed her up and separated her from her mother and sister.

I've personally never had an issue with Donna's mess of a history. Devin Grayson wrote my favorite Donna.

Yeah, Wally sucked in NTT, but he doesn't have any of the history that came after that either to my knowledge, and having it in his background doesn't mean his personality has to revert, which is the point of growing up.

And I'm hoping Flash War clears up his history and gets him his family back. Without everything that came after, the NTT being canon is pointless. Like I said, I'm not against it, but on its own, it means nothing.

The fact that it was the franchise's most popular era and not all of the characters from it being in the main Titans book really doesn't make any sense.

I wrote out a few sentences explaining why I very much disagreed with this train of thought, but it'd just start another tangent and I'm not in the mood for that.

Cyborg can stay with the League I guess as long as he was a Titan first, but Starfire and a Beast Boy and Raven who were the ages they are meant to be would be better served with their peers.

I'd say put Kory with the Titans, let Wolfman write his yearly Raven minis while having her appear with other magic characters when they gather and previously I've said put BB in Cyborg, but with that book being over, I'd say throw him on JLA maybe.

And almost every character has fans that are interested in them, but from a marketing perspective it doesn't make sense to exclude the characters who are a proven success (Cyborg, Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy) and feature the ones who never really took off to the same degree (Lilith, Bumblebee, etc).

When have Lilith and Bumblebee ever been given a chance to take off in the comics? And if you're talking about marketing, at least with Bumblebee it does make sense since she's prominently featured in animation and is part of the Super Hero Girls line.

If the current roster reverted to the NTT starting line-up, I would drop the book in an instant.

That wouldn't solve the problem of good character writing by itself, which is why I think Abnett needs to go.

Said it before, but I can't wait till Abnett is off the book, just so all of you who keep saying this will find the egg on your faces as we see that the fault lies primarily on editorial.

Now, I know that we're not supposed to want too much at once, but I do think that the solution to the mess was to put everyone back at his or her generation, and maybe have one more team? Say, Titans, Teen Titans and Young Justice?

Yes please.

[Frontier]

Said it before, but I can't wait till Abnett is off the book, just so all of you who keep saying this will find the egg on your faces as we see that the fault lies primarily on editorial.

Honestly, even as someone who's pro-Abnett, outside Lazarus Contract I'm not sure how much of the issue is editorial and how much of it is Abnett.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Said it before, but I can't wait till Abnett is off the book, just so all of you who keep saying this will find the egg on your faces as we see that the fault lies primarily on editorial.

Although I agree that the problem with that book is most likely editorial, I feel that Abnett is burnt out.

[Assam]

Honestly, even as someone who's pro-Abnett, outside Lazarus Contract I'm not sure how much of the issue is editorial and how much of it is Abnett.

Although I agree that the problem with that book is most likely editorial, I feel that Abnett is burnt out.

Don't get me wrong. Some of the problems probably are on Abnett and it isn't as if he has a 100% great track record, but I really don't think many writers could do too much better given the circumstances and a lot of writers could be doing worse.

[Frontier]

Don't get me wrong. Some of the problems probably are on Abnett and it isn't as if he has a 100% great track record, but I really don't think many writers could do too much better given the circumstances and a lot of writers could be doing worse.

I dunno.

Some writers are better at working around editorial or mandates then others (like Al Ewing for instance, Cullen Bunn in some situations), but there are some times when there's only so much certain writers can do.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Don't get me wrong. Some of the problems probably are on Abnett and it isn't as if he has a 100% great track record, but I really don't think many writers could do too much better given the circumstances and a lot of writers could be doing worse.

Oh, I completely agree!

It's just that, if I was Abnett, and the editorial problems were all fixed today, I would still probably had lost a lot fo my passion for the book already.