Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 189
  1. #31
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Usually at the End of Time
    Posts
    3,642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Like who?
    Honestly, everyone associated with Amanda Waller and her Task Force X / Suicide Squad corner of the DCU.



    Why not?
    Because I don't want Steve pulled by anything outside the Wonderverse franchise. Give him a different boss ... like a re-purposed Julia Kapatellis, who works for the UN, directing squads to emergency humanitarian disaster areas. Squads that Dr. Steve Trevor leads.



    I somewhat suggested this. Oddfellows aren't an espionage team anymore, they're superhuman hotzone crowd control and lifeguards. They have expertise in dealing with superhuman battlezone survival, and use medicine, triage, and magic to save lives.
    I think we have something here

  2. #32

    Default

    /edited out
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 01-14-2018 at 12:58 AM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  3. #33
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    A big part of the reason that Lois and Selina are seen (by large portions of the Superverse and Batverse fanbases respectively) as suitable partners for their Alpha heroes is that they are both phenomenal at their careers, independent of their relationship with said alphas.

    Not so with Steve. He is often looked down upon for not being good enough for Diana. The audience doesn't identify with him enough to defend him. Hell, his strongest competitor is basically a more badass version of himself (Tom Tressor). Steve "trying hard" as his best quality just makes him sound like a failure, and certainly not nearly enough to make him stand out from other would -be WW paramour who excite the imagination more than Steve TryHard Trevor can.

    No, I'm pretty firm on this: Steve Trevor needs to be the very best at something in the DCU. Diana shouldn't settle for mediocrity or blandness.
    And yet Steve was well received live interest in a commercially and critically successful movie while Tresser's claim to fame is being in one of the worst WW runs in DC history and having an utterly toxic dynamic with Diana.

    I think Steve will be just fine. And Lois being the best in her field hasn't stopped a bunch of jerks hating her either

  4. #34
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Posts
    1,793

    Default

    Steve should be an average guy, possibly even a civilian tourist washed ashore on Diana's island. Why ? Because someone as exceptional as Diana shouldn't need some expecitional other to fall in love with (if she really need one, and just one, love interest). You want Wonder Woman to show easily how incredible she is ? Make her fall for a guy who'se pretty average, isn't a badass but do good in the world (like being in NGO helping peoples, or fighting against climate changes, I don't know, some altruistic things).

    Badass Steve can't work because either I'll always be playing second role compared to Diana (as he should) or he'll outshine her. And Lois and Selina aren't seen as good partner because of their skills but because of how they don't take any nonsense from Supes and Bats... And I say that as someone who finds Lois to barely be a character (and is yet above Steve). Steve doesn't need to be a G.I. Joe imitator to do that too. In fact, how much stronger would it be to have a guy who doesn't even know how to fight or hold a gun telling to Diana that she's in the wrong this one time and that she should listen to him ? I would personally find more impressive.

    And this kind of relationship in mainstream comics can only be a good example for kids.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    2,566

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Honestly, everyone associated with Amanda Waller and her Task Force X / Suicide Squad corner of the DCU.
    There are so many agencies out there, I thought you might know more about Spyral, or something else that covers the international and extraterrestrial spy game. Does DC need a SHIELD?

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Because I don't want Steve pulled by anything outside the Wonderverse franchise. Give him a different boss ... like a re-purposed Julia Kapatellis, who works for the UN, directing squads to emergency humanitarian disaster areas. Squads that Dr. Steve Trevor leads.
    I suppose. I'm coming from a headfanon where Amanda Blake is part of the Wonderverse franchise and branched out. I don't mind Trevor and the Oddfellows being something like a benevolent Blackwater or boy-versions of Charlie's Angels, and Sasha Bordeaux being their Charlie.

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    I think we have something here
    ;-)

  6. #36
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And yet Steve was well received live interest in a commercially and critically successful movie while Tresser's claim to fame is being in one of the worst WW runs in DC history and having an utterly toxic dynamic with Diana.

    I think Steve will be just fine. And Lois being the best in her field hasn't stopped a bunch of jerks hating her either
    I agree! IMHO, the live film adaptation of Steve Trevor was literally one of the best interpretations that I have ever seen of the character. On the other hand though I do see where daBronzeBomma is coming from and I second his agreement of CRaymond's idea of what Steve should be the best at.

  7. #37

    Default

    I must say, respectfully, I don't really agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    A big part of the reason that Lois and Selina are seen (by large portions of the Superverse and Batverse fanbases respectively) as suitable partners for their Alpha heroes is that they are both phenomenal at their careers, independent of their relationship with said alphas.
    I'm not sure this is actually true. I mean, I know it's true for you, but I've seen very little indication that it's true (or, for that matter, false) for fandom in general. It's not true for me, or a number of other people on this thread.

    Not so with Steve. He is often looked down upon for not being good enough for Diana.
    I'm not sure how often. But in some case (perhaps many cases) I think it may have to do with expectations that people develop from years of comic book stories, or stories in general - specifically, that the male partner should be "the man in the relationship." It's much more common to see stories in which the male half of a couple is clearly more impressive than the female half. So I think some there are people who knock Steve down a few grades (consciously or unconsciously) because he, by the usual standards, less than "his woman." Some people see that as emasculating.

    For some readers the only men who are "good enough" for Diana are Superman, Hercules, Hermes, or other people at that power level.

    No, I'm pretty firm on this: Steve Trevor needs to be the very best at something in the DCU. Diana shouldn't settle for mediocrity or blandness.
    Not being the best in the world at something does not make a person mediocre. Consider the top twenty people at some skill - pole vaulting, or pie-baking. Each and every one of them, even #19 and #20, is not mediocre. In fact, they're really, really good.

    Blandness has a lot more to do with how a character is written than with his ranking at some ability or another. I don't think that Ted Kord/Blue Beetle (when properly written) is bland at all, and neither do his many fans. But I don't think he's the best in the world at anything, other than being Ted Kord - and that's enough. (Other people, even if bored by Ted Kord, will have other examples).

    I'm much more interested in the emotional relationship between Steve and Diana. (I'd like to think Diana would be too.) Do they love each other? (This is a question that is rarely related to whether one or both people in a couple are the best in the world at anything - even if one is and one isn't.) Do they delight in each other's company? Do they make each other laugh? Do they support each other emotionally during difficult times? If the answers to those are "yes," then I don't think Diana is "settling" at all - even if Steve is not as good a marksman as Deadshot, or not as good a spy as Helena Bertinelli. Is he a good, decent man who cares about people and tries his best to help them? That should count for more, as far as the relationship goes, than whether he's a better pilot than Blackhawk.

    And, in truth, for most of the decades of her existence, Lois Lane was not depicted as "the best reporter in the world." (I'm not even sure she's depicted that way now. I don't even know what it means. Reporting isn't like the 100-yard dash; there's no objective or linear measurement to say who is the "best.") Certainly she was ambitious, competitive, talented, and willing to take risks. I have no doubt she was good at her job ("for a dame," they might say for many of those decades). But she was also highly dependent on Superman to rescue her from dangerous situations, and many of her scoops resulted from her relationship with him. She had her own comic, but the title was not Lois Lane, Ace Reporter. It was Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane. You can see where the focus was.

    She wasn't even very good at being his girlfriend for a lot of those years. Times have changed, though; she now has a ton of awards for being a reporter, and they're happily married. But the character was a well-accepted mainstay of Superman's story for a long time before that.
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 01-15-2018 at 02:51 AM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  8. #38
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    A big part of the reason that Lois and Selina are seen (by large portions of the Superverse and Batverse fanbases respectively) as suitable partners for their Alpha heroes is that they are both phenomenal at their careers, independent of their relationship with said alphas.

    Not so with Steve. He is often looked down upon for not being good enough for Diana. The audience doesn't identify with him enough to defend him. Hell, his strongest competitor is basically a more badass version of himself (Tom Tressor). Steve "trying hard" as his best quality just makes him sound like a failure, and certainly not nearly enough to make him stand out from other would -be WW paramour who excite the imagination more than Steve TryHard Trevor can.

    No, I'm pretty firm on this: Steve Trevor needs to be the very best at something in the DCU. Diana shouldn't settle for mediocrity or blandness.
    I don't think Steve is looked down upon more than Lois or Catwoman. Lois often gets the "Superman is too strong for her argument" thrown her way too and often Diana is the preferred choice so there are just people who find human companions boring when paired with super powered characters period. I think that Steve has been liked in the few instances he gets used (the animated movie, the movie, and the tv show). The only thing that has hindered him is that he wasnt being used for about three or so decades.
    Last edited by Gemini; 01-15-2018 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Green Bay, WI
    Posts
    4,913

    Default

    That's simple. He's the most charming man in the DCU.
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Titans, & Wonder Woman.

  10. #40
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Usually at the End of Time
    Posts
    3,642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    And yet Steve was well received live interest in a commercially and critically successful movie
    Funny how he had to die for realsies in his movie debut and has stayed dead for over a century while Lois got resurrected via time travel in S:TM and Selina survived her "Death" in BR. Not exactly essential, is he?

    while Tresser's claim to fame is being in one of the worst WW runs in DC history and having an utterly toxic dynamic with Diana.
    Tom made more of an impact during that run than Steve did from all of 1987 - 2011.

    I think Steve will be just fine. And Lois being the best in her field hasn't stopped a bunch of jerks hating her either
    I'm pretty confident that Lois' actual fans far outnumber her (admittedly very vocal) haters.

  11. #41
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    14,676

    Default

    For the record I don't necessarily think Steve has to be the absolute best at anything either. I do think he should have something of a calling card though, is all. Doesn't mean it has to be hammered home constantly that he's the greatest *insert talent here* in the world like they do for Bruce's detective skills or Lex Luthor's genius, but all the same just something he's known for beyond being Wonder Woman's boyfriend. I mean there's nothing to indicate that right now he's a bad solider or anything like that, but its still really generic in its portrayal as is.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  12. #42
    Incredible Member TheSupernaut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Twin Peaks
    Posts
    807

    Default

    I don't know I've always headcanoned Steve Trevor as being a lot like Special Agent Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks. At least, that's the way I'd write him.

  13. #43
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Funny how he had to die for realsies in his movie debut and has stayed dead for over a century while Lois got resurrected via time travel in S:TM and Selina survived her "Death" in BR. Not exactly essential, is he?
    None of which has anything to do with if people like him. Heís also alive in the comics. And Selina being alive at the end of BR is questionable.



    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Tom made more of an impact during that run than Steve did from all of 1987 - 2011.
    What impact? He was an annoying sidekick in one of the worst WW runs in history, was made barely tolerable by Gail Simone and then was never seen again. Steve has appeared in two animated series, one animated movie and one live action film that was the most well received of the DCEU thus far. Thatís more than Tom, who isnít even a WW character, has to his name.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    I'm still down with Steve being an exceptional leader, spy, and strategist. Similar to Diana, he's charismatic and empathic and smart - that's one way they connect as individuals - but he uses those skills to great effect in understanding the dynamics of the agencies dealing with heroes and villains, or people really.

    There's something there in making Steve Trevor and ARGUS and Amanda Waller and Task Force X the yin and yang to each other in the espionage/government aspects of the DCU. He's realistic, but optimistic. She's realistic too, but more Machiavellian.

  15. #45
    The Detective Man The Dying Detective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Look East
    Posts
    4,774

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I'm still down with Steve being an exceptional leader, spy, and strategist. Similar to Diana, he's charismatic and empathic and smart - that's one way they connect as individuals - but he uses those skills to great effect in understanding the dynamics of the agencies dealing with heroes and villains, or people really.

    There's something there in making Steve Trevor and ARGUS and Amanda Waller and Task Force X the yin and yang to each other in the espionage/government aspects of the DCU. He's realistic, but optimistic. She's realistic too, but more Machiavellian.
    You know I actually agree with with you in fact I actually worked on some idea for fanfiction version of the DC Universe where Steve Trevor is the leader off the Oddfellows a group of A.R.G.U.S agents who track down powerful artifacts in secret and was formed so that the US government can disavow any involvement. But having dealt with the worse of mankind he keeps some of these things a secret from his superiors as he knows they can cause unbelievable harm maybe that's what can be his calling card keeping secrets. I know this a mixture of both Batman and the Suicide Squad but at least he stands out more to contrast Diana who's all about exposing secrets.
    Last edited by The Dying Detective; 01-23-2018 at 01:08 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •