Is J'Onn's moniker a bit too wordy?

[daBronzeBomma]

People seem to really like that take on J'onn and his storylines, and that plays into the complaints about how he's underused and underutilized.

There are tons of characters on Arrowverse shows who get dumbed down or underplayed so they don't show-up the lead.

He's not the only major DC character in limbo for Rebirth.

His last series was in 2016 with twelve issues.

That's about as much as Vision got with Tom King.

He's showed up in 2-3 episodes, and was pretty instrumental to the heroes winning in his first episode.

He's also going to be in the upcoming Scooby-Doo/Brave and the Bold movie.

The same could be said for a lot of DC characters right now, though Steve Orlando has said he's a big fan of J'onn.

There are always going to be people who don't "get" a character for one reason or another, but I don't think that should be taken as gospel as far as a character's popularity or appeal.

And I'm not seeing a compelling reason to change try and J'onn into something he's not. But to each their own.

So what exactly IS the Martian Manhunter? What parts are ok to try something new and what parts have to be left alone? Because if it's all gospel, then what worthwhile talent is going to want to work on something they can't change even a little?

Cuz this sounds a lot like the "Give me something new but don't change anything" problem that STAR WARS (and many other franchises) have.

And the whole "mediocrity and negligence happen to other folks too, so it's no big deal that they happen to this one as well" mantra is not good enough. Or at least it shouldn't be.

[Frontier]

So what exactly IS the Martian Manhunter? What parts are ok to try something new and what parts have to be left alone? Because if it's all gospel, then what worthwhile talent is going to want to work on something they can't change even a little?

People used to writing mainstream comics for the Big Two .

I think the core tenets of Martian Manhunter are his being the last son of Mars, his compassion, his introspection, and his costume/powers.

Cuz this sounds a lot like the "Give me something new but don't change anything" problem that STAR WARS (and many other franchises) have.

Not everything needs to be reinvented or changed.

And the whole "mediocrity and negligence happen to other folks too, so it's no big deal that they happen to this one as well" mantra is not good enough. Or at least it shouldn't be.

I never said anything about "mediocrity," but good characters being in limbo or underutilized is just an unfortunate fact about Big Two comics.

[Doctor Bifrost]

"The Martian Marshal".

I first read this as "The Martian Marsha!" and thought it was a reference to The Brady Bunch. "Martian, Martian, Martian!"

I don't think his name is the problem, and I doubt attempts to give him a new one would stick. For readers who know anything about him, "The Martian Manhunter" is something they know and are used to.

It's more of a problem that DC can't settle on who he is. His original Silver Age origin (alien stuck on Earth due to a teleportation experiment gone wrong) was fine when he was pretty much isolated from the rest of the DCU, alone in his own stories. But once he joined the JLA and met Green Lantern and Superman, it didn't make much sense. (They could fly him home. Problem solved*.)

Since then, there have been so many additions to his origins and retcons (introduction of the White Martians, with all the political and military complications), changes to his physical and psychological nature ("actually he really sort of looks like Gumby, but to make people more comfortable he took on the form of a green hairless sort-of-human, because for some reason he didn't want to go all the way and make people more comfortable by just looking human..."), to his family (evil twin brother!), his chronology ("it also teleported him through time!"), and on and on and on...

It's one of the few cases worse than Donna Troy. Really, the name is one of the few stable things about him. And, of course, for many years he was considered "the heart of the Justice League" (although I never really understood that), but he hasn't even been a part of the Justice League (except perhaps in references to some membership "some years past") since the advent of The New 52.

DC should figure out who they want him to be. They can keep the name.

(* There was the same issue with Adam Strange, once he met the JLA.)

[Ascended]

Superman Blue.

Shouldn't it be Superman Green?

While its true that J'onn has never managed to catch on with a wider audience.....I dont think a name or costume change is the solution, just as they're not the root problem. Now, yes the name is a little unwieldy and the costume is....well, its blue trunks and some chest straps. Even among superheroes you only see stuff like that in certain nightclubs. But I think the larger issue is that J'onn just doesn't have mass audience appeal. He doesn't look human, and people seem to struggle with non-human looking characters. He's not loud or boisterous, so it takes a little longer to get to know his character and all the interesting little quirks (like his cookie addiction). His mission statement and purpose is murky. His origin is a tough sell in today's world, where we know a lot more about Mars than we did in the 50's.

I think you'd have to give J'onn a top-down overhaul if you wanted him to have mass market appeal as a solo act. The name and costume can work for him if you spin it the right way and dump some retro, art-deco sensibilities onto him and lean into that pulp sci-fi adventure flavor he started out with. Or you could spin him off in a new direction (someone suggested putting him in charge of the DEO in another thread) and had him just go by "J'onn."

But I dont think its the end of the world if J'onn remains tied to a team franchise like the League. He actually provides an important narrative function on a team like that, where most of the other members have solo titles where their character development happens. We all pick up the JLA to see the biggest names work together, but we end up sticking around for J'onn's character development and personal story, which your typical Big 7 JLA can't do with the rest.

[MajorHoy]

. . . and the costume is....well, its blue trunks and some chest straps. Even among superheroes you only see stuff like that in certain nightclubs.

Didn't he graduate to long pants in the New 52?

[stephens2177]

Martian manhunter is a good name IF we say he is a Martian who's job on earth is to track down criminals or missing persons.beig a detective is nice,but why can't he take it a step farther and be a US Marshall or bounty Hunter.

Powerwise I would drop everything superman like,I would explain his powers as Jonn has total control over his every molecule and a world class telepath.no optic blasts just mind blasts,no super strength just density control and shapeshifting,no superspeed or flight just levitation (through his density control) and invisibility.

He can look whichever way he wants me,some looks or better than others for sure,but he should look strong and majestic in whichever they go with.

JLI or JL or JLA whichever,but each team brings something different to Jonn the others don't

[Ascended]

Didn't he graduate to long pants in the New 52?

Actually I think it happened before that, in his 2006-07 miniseries that followed Infinite Crisis.

Might have the year wrong.....it was at the same time as the debut of Ryan Choi......

Anyway, he's been in pants for a minute, but I was talking about his classic suit. Of all the various new designs, I think the only one that works is the one from the Young Justice cartoon. All the rest seem to be trying too hard to make something work that doesn't.

[Jcogginsa]

I'd be down with shortening his name to just the Manhunter

[Godlike13]

I like the name, and its far too late to change it now, but it sounds more menacing then heroic.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

What? No. Its not too wordy. I mean, since when has five syllables been too much of an effort?

You use other examples like Mr. Fantastic and Mr. Terrific, but here's the thing: those characters are still successful. Mr. Fantastic is one of the most recognizable Marvel characters of all time. Mr. Terrific is also successful, with the Curtis Holt iteration being featured in the Arrowverse and of course his role in Metal so far. In the case of the former, they usually get around any problem with his codename by just calling him by his given name since his identity is public. I mean, if you wanna go one step further, Invisible Woman is six syllables, and again she's one of Marvel's most recognizable heroines, but they get around that by calling her "Sue" (or Suzie, as Ben is known to do). That's literally the exact same thing they do with Martian Manhunter: they just call him J'onn.

I think some people here will tell you not to change one thing about him, even though he's an unsuccessful character. One time I proposed here that he get a different costume, and a few folks got upset by the idea I was startled that anyone was attached to his costume.

The question is, do you want him to stay the same way and continue to be unsuccessful? Some readers might prefer that, but I bet the management at DC Comics doesn't. There's no money for them in an unsuccessful character.

I think he needs a different name and a different costume, and that he should lose about 12,000 of his powers. But if anyone has another idea to make him more popular besides "hire John Ostrander to write him," I'll certainly give it a fair hearing.

The "unsuccessfulness" you're perceiving has literally nothing to do with such superficial things as the name or the costume. Its more so DC's decision to bury him for close to six years and rob him of his JLA founder status in favor of a lineup that actually has proven a failure. Before the dark days of the New 52, J'onn was regarded as the heart and soul of the Justice League, even being referred to as such by other characters.

Plus, they did change his costume in the New 52. It was pretty awful.

Actually I think it happened before that, in his 2006-07 miniseries that followed Infinite Crisis.

Might have the year wrong.....it was at the same time as the debut of Ryan Choi......

Anyway, he's been in pants for a minute, but I was talking about his classic suit. Of all the various new designs, I think the only one that works is the one from the Young Justice cartoon. All the rest seem to be trying too hard to make something work that doesn't.

You mean this look?

[MajorHoy]

I'd be down with shortening his name to just the Manhunter

We've had quite a few of those before. . .







among others . . .

[chief12d]

So what exactly IS the Martian Manhunter? What parts are ok to try something new and what parts have to be left alone? Because if it's all gospel, then what worthwhile talent is going to want to work on something they can't change even a little?

Cuz this sounds a lot like the "Give me something new but don't change anything" problem that STAR WARS (and many other franchises) have.

And the whole "mediocrity and negligence happen to other folks too, so it's no big deal that they happen to this one as well" mantra is not good enough. Or at least it shouldn't be.

MM is one of my top 10 DC heroes so obviously I'd like a lot of his core elements to stay. After so many years the name is kinda unchangeable at this point.

But he's due for a new outfit and on top of that, streamlined powers and a more defined role within the DCU. The fact that many people consider him unrelatable and just a Superman clone hurts his solo potential as well. His most recent solo was an interesting setup though. A fine revamp that gave us context for who he is and how he's approaching the world around him. Stories that go in that direction have potential if given the right editorial support.

[9th.]

It is a mouthful but it works for him

[daBronzeBomma]

What? No. Its not too wordy. I mean, since when has five syllables been too much of an effort?

Since at least when Stanley Martin Lieber changed his public name to Stan Lee. It's always been about marketing.

You use other examples like Mr. Fantastic and Mr. Terrific, but here's the thing: those characters are still successful. Mr. Fantastic is one of the most recognizable Marvel characters of all time. Mr. Terrific is also successful, with the Curtis Holt iteration being featured in the Arrowverse and of course his role in Metal so far. In the case of the former, they usually get around any problem with his codename by just calling him by his given name since his identity is public. I mean, if you wanna go one step further, Invisible Woman is six syllables, and again she's one of Marvel's most recognizable heroines, but they get around that by calling her "Sue" (or Suzie, as Ben is known to do). That's literally the exact same thing they do with Martian Manhunter: they just call him J'onn.

All these bolded code-names are unquestionably horrible code-names attached to decent characters.

If a character goes by their given name instead of their code-name, then it's time to drop the code-name altogether and just advertise the given name.

I know "Reed Richards" and "Sue Storm" automatically, "Mr. Fantastic" and "Invisible Woman" take a few seconds to place, since they are never referred to by those useless code-names in-story.

Also, none of those other heroes are attempting to anchor their own solo franchise like J'onn is/was. When you are trying to establish yourself as a brand, every little thing counts that much more. A name that's a mouthful, plus an "non-conventional looking inhuman face", plus a costume that is somehow even more ridiculous in a field that is already ridiculous ...

I guess the question isn't "why isn't J'onn a bigger comic-book star?" ... the question is probably more "Why would anyone invest in this character as anything other than a weird back-up?"

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Since at least when Stanley Martin Lieber changed his public name to Stan Lee. It's always been about marketing.

There were plenty of reasons he had for shortening it to Stan Lee, mostly the anti-semitism that was rampant in the 1940s. If you want evidence for how things have changed, ask Gabourey Sidibe, Mahershala Ali, or Chiwetel Ejiofor.

All these bolded code-names are unquestionably horrible code-names attached to decent characters.

If a character goes by their given name instead of their code-name, then it's time to drop the code-name altogether and just advertise the given name.

I know "Reed Richards" and "Sue Storm" automatically, "Mr. Fantastic" and "Invisible Woman" take a few seconds to place, since they are never referred to by those useless code-names in-story.

I think most people who actually know superheroes can place Mr. Fantastic or Invisible Woman pretty easily. After all, Mr. Fantastic is the guy at the center of the Fantastic Four.

Also, none of those other heroes are attempting to anchor their own solo franchise like J'onn is/was. When you are trying to establish yourself as a brand, every little thing counts that much more. A name that's a mouthful, plus an "non-conventional looking inhuman face", plus a costume that is somehow even more ridiculous in a field that is already ridiculous ...

I guess the question isn't "why isn't J'onn a bigger comic-book star?" ... the question is probably more "Why would anyone invest in this character as anything other than a weird back-up?"

Well, again, Mr. Fantastic is the center of the Fantastic Four. But, like Mr. Terrific with the JSA, Martian Manhunter is known primarily as a member of the Justice League, especially as a founder. That's where most of his significance as a character came from. When DC took that away, they took away the thing that made the character a fixture of the DC Universe. There's a reason why most of the books where J'onn gets exposure are Justice League books and why that backup was in a JLA book. Without it, he can't anchor a franchise on his own.

Plus, of course, there is the fact that "Martian Manhunter" is simply what he's known by to the fans. No other name would stick now, over 60 years after his first debut.

But, of course, Martian Manhunter isn't nearly the only character to have five or more syllables in their name. Since Doomsday Clock is going on, we can't forget the likes of Dr. Manhattan and Ozymandias. In terms of classic DC/Marvel characters, there's Elongated Man, Solomon Grundy, Emerald Empress, Captain America, Abomination, etc.

If you don't like the character, that's fine. But don't assume that people are turned off by things just because you're turned off by it. There's a reason the character's been around for over six decades with his exact name and his exact appearance.