Superhero narratives striving for diversity are drowned out by the status quo

[WontonGirl]

There's been a certain effort to introduce more African-American characters over the years--maybe even more than striking a gender balance. And given the history of the USA that makes sense. But there's been much less effort to include everyone else. Even Native Americans are under represented--let alone all of the people who have a heritage from other countries. And when they do appear, these other groups are often reduced to a stereotype (the martial arts Asian, the intellectual Asian with glasses, the Native American tracker, the Arab terrorist).

This is very true about the Native Americans. I mean, you also see them presented in stories about aliens or shapeshifters. Even Smallville had episodes like that as well.

I think that at this point, mostly every group that feels on the outskirts want to see representation of their groups in the comic and superhero fandom. Whether it's on TV, in the comics, in the Movies or even with the actors themselves; people want to see that representation.

[Jim Kelly]

I don't see it as so unlikely that the major characters like Superman and Batman could be from any background. Movies and TV shows always throw out a lot of comic book preconceptions and try to go their own way with the characters. It wouldn't be Idris Elba because he's not a proven box office star. But if a big box office star happened to be a person of colour and his reps were really pushing for him to be the next Superman then for sure WB would want to get him.

I just don't see any big name stars right now who would fit the bill. Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson have the schlep to get a movie made right now, but not many other male actors. Back in the day, someone like Eddie Murphy or Will Smith (when they were box office superstars) had enough pull to get such a movie in the can. It just never worked out like that with Superman. Since Lois Lane doesn't have to carry the movie, I think any actress currently would have a good chance of getting cast, regardless of skin colour or national origin.

[WontonGirl]

Why change Clark/Kal-El from white to black and not just do Val-Zod in a film which is a black character and Superman? It also gives the creators more liberties? Or do Kong Kenan or Hernan Guerra there are other options over changing the race of Clark and facing that backlash which would make more sense.

And that's exactly what I'm saying. DC or Marvel wouldn't want to face that backlash and I am willing to bet that a lot of the General public is not ready for that either.

I mean, there was severe backlash when Iris and James was cast as Black on their respective TV shows. And they are just side characters.

And to be honest, they could make the whole entire cast of Supergirl non-White but at the end of the day, Kara will still be a White, Blonde, Woman. TPTB are not going to change that.

[WontonGirl]

Well I guess you don't know what to tell me then, because I really don't think there's a problem with that statement.

Why would you think that would make sense? I mean, seriously, why would you think that statement made sense? I mean you really don't see the problem with that statement?

[AJBopp]

Why would you think that would make sense? I mean, seriously, why would you think that statement made sense? I mean you really don't see the problem with that statement?

No, and I'm kind of disturbed that anyone would find a problem with that statement.

[WontonGirl]

I don't see it as so unlikely that the major characters like Superman and Batman could be from any background. Movies and TV shows always throw out a lot of comic book preconceptions and try to go their own way with the characters. It wouldn't be Idris Elba because he's not a proven box office star. But if a big box office star happened to be a person of colour and his reps were really pushing for him to be the next Superman then for sure WB would want to get him.

I just don't see any big name stars right now who would fit the bill. Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson have the schlep to get a movie made right now, but not many other male actors. Back in the day, someone like Eddie Murphy or Will Smith (when they were box office superstars) had enough pull to get such a movie in the can. It just never worked out like that with Superman. Since Lois Lane doesn't have to carry the movie, I think any actress currently would have a good chance of getting cast, regardless of skin colour or national origin.

Edited to say that this is a hot topic and very interesting and is causing me to walk on eggshells, LOL!

[WontonGirl]

No, and I'm kind of disturbed that anyone would find a problem with that statement.

That's why I said then I didn't know what to tell you.

Maybe I re-read it wrong and misunderstood what you were saying. My apologies.

[Osiris-Rex]

And that's exactly what I'm saying. DC or Marvel wouldn't want to face that backlash and I am willing to bet that a lot of the General public is not ready for that either.

I mean, there was severe backlash when Iris and James was cast as Black on their respective TV shows. And they are just side characters.

And to be honest, they could make the whole entire cast of Supergirl non-White but at the end of the day, Kara will still be a White, Blonde, Woman. TPTB are not going to change that.

A lot of the cast of Supergirl is already non-white and/or women. Mechad Brooks (James "Jimmy" Olsen), Sharon Leal (Miss Martian), and Carl Lumbly (J'onn's Father) are African-American, David Harewood (J'onn J'onzz)
is African-British, Odette Annable (Samantha Arias/Reign) is Cuban and Columbian, Briana Venskus (Agent Vasquez) is a Latina. Plus other female characters include Cat Grant, Alex Danvers, Lena Luthor, Lucy Lane, Roulette, Psi, Alura, Astra, Indigo, Maggie Sawyer, Maxima, Livewire, Silver Banshee, The President of the United States, FBI Agent Cameron Chase, Scorch, Lyra Strayd, to name a few.

[Confuzzled]

I think some things will always stay the same. Like you might get a Black Perry White BUT I’m willing to bet 3 years worth of salary that won’t see a Black Superman with a Black Lois Lane. Or a Black Captain America.

Wonder Woman won’t be Asian American anytime soon and Bruce Wayne won’t be coming out the closest. It’s just like some other poster said earlier, some of the side characters might get. changed around bit BUT the main characters taking center stage? That’s not changing.

And this goes for the actors too. They might change James and Iris on TV or have some mixed race actors play certain roles but I don’t think we are going to see that kind of heavy hitting change soon, if at all.

But... Israelis are technically Asians. I also think if there would have been a chance for an actual Asian-American or mixed race actress like say Olivia Munn to have landed the role if she had been more fitting for the part than Gal Gadot.

About 5 years back, many people would have also said a Polynesian Aquaman wouldn't be possible. Neither an openly bisexual Jewish actor playing The Flash on the big screen.

Strides have been made in the last few years. And they will continue to be made in the next few years, so never say never.

[WontonGirl]

A lot of the cast of Supergirl is already non-white and/or women. Mechad Brooks (James "Jimmy" Olsen), Sharon Leal (Miss Martian), and Carl Lumbly (J'onn's Father) are African-American, David Harewood (J'onn J'onzz)
is African-British, Odette Annable (Samantha Arias/Reign) is Cuban and Columbian, Briana Venskus (Agent Vasquez) is a Latina. Plus other female characters include Cat Grant, Alex Danvers, Lena Luthor, Lucy Lane, Roulette, Psi, Alura, Astra, Indigo, Maggie Sawyer, Maxima, Livewire, Silver Banshee, The President of the United States, FBI Agent Cameron Chase, Scorch, Lyra Strayd, to name a few.

Is Supergirl non White on the show?

[WontonGirl]

But... Israelis are technically Asians. I also think if there would have been a chance for an actual Asian-American or mixed race actress like say Olivia Munn to have landed the role if she had been more fitting for the part than Gal Gadot.

About 5 years back, many people would have also said a Polynesian Aquaman wouldn't be possible. Neither an openly bisexual Jewish actor playing The Flash on the big screen.

Strides have been made in the last few years. And they will continue to be made in the next few years, so never say never.

You are talking about the actors.

And to be honest, a Polynesian Aquaman makes a lot of sense, lol! At least to me. And Jason is mixed race as well.

[Carabas]

Well I guess you don't know what to tell me then, because I really don't think there's a problem with that statement.

"A black person (perhaps a woman) actually would make perfect sense for the Bat family, given the street level adventures in a morally dubious city they tend to have."

You're essentially saying that it makes sense for Batman to know black people because he runs into criminals (or at least morally dubious people) the whole time.

[Surf]

A 99% all-white cast was fine in 1963 when your demo was primarily a limited, mostly white and male audience, but now it's all about capitalizing on IP and making adaptations and merchandise sold the world over to diverse audiences. What worked then is not sufficient now.

I just don't want it to be misconstrued, African-American male readership has always been strong. In the 60s through the 80s a large percentage of males were either into comics or sports. Just like their white counterparts. Some were into both like me and some of my cousins, most on both sides got out of comics much earlier in their lives but there has always been a very strong contingent during the biggest years of modern comic readership.

Also least anyone make the argument (I feel that it's next) that it's about even about representation based strictly per race population breakdowns, which is ridiculous because well, sports. I feel the point of the article is that for so many decades there were no seeds planted and now 40 years later when all the IP is making major entertainment bank, there isn't much comparable entertainment fruit having bare for black characters as leads. Yes there is this giant Black Panther tree and like most of the comic community I can't wait, I just worry it may be a one off. Hopefully itself becomes a franchise in a sense but the way they are mining these characters for stories they will have done a Game of Thrones type situation where the live-action stories have passed up the original material. Characters for the movies and shows will have to have come up with in real time and the canon, that people like to bitch about and hold so dearly, just won't be as strong as it's counterparts.

Jim Kelly- There's been a certain effort to introduce more African-American characters over the years

Sure, that's actually true in a sense, sometimes to the chagrin of some long term readers. Thing is though are they leads?

Brothas do like Batman, brothas do like Spiderman... sure it would have been nice to NOT have taken parts from Miles's story only to refresh Peter's going forward in the larger scheme but that's what happens, least anybody feels otherwise. People have brought up AOS, Supergirl and the CW gang but really, Jimmy BROlson/Guardian, Diggle and J'onn play the sides and background to Arrow and the blonde with powers. Hell, had Carl Lumbly not voiced Martian in all those years of the JL, who knows what he'd look like. Poor Mack in AOS plays the waay background to goofy assed Clark Gregg- who actually fuckin' died in the movies and still gets his part out front. I guess there's a sole black dude in the ensemble of the Runaways but that's a lot of pie to split. As far as Cloak and Dagger go- and In the past I've been a fan of that pairing, Cloak, like Spawn were black at one time. The writer was spot on when they brought up Legion. You could throw the Gifted right in there with it.

Again, I don't think anybody should be expecting a 1:1 situation, it's just that 9 or 10:1 is a glaring lack of representation in capes. I'm just speaking to black characters, beyond that of course the mileage is worse. If you know the history of characters like the Dell Comics Lobo who was before Panther then you know that there was a mandate that had enough bigoted support, that time was not kind to for sure kept down many character iterations. The Milestone guys knew this and to this day those characters have yet to have a significant resurgence, hope they will. Creators like Dawud Anyabwile knew this and started his own. Both of these started in the 90s. Can't wait to see Black Panther 1 (and hopefully a 2 and 3...) looking forward to Black Lightning for real and I'm ready for Cage season 2 on Netflix, all coming out in the same year. I also hope these are not as good as it gets.

[Confuzzled]

You are talking about the actors.

And to be honest, a Polynesian Aquaman makes a lot of sense, lol! At least to me. And Jason is mixed race as well.

But Amazons are mythological figures beyond race in a way, so Diana could be any ethnicity. Gal Gadot already went against the blue-eyed version traditionally depicted in the comics. And her heavy accent, while arguably fitting for the actual character, wasn't like the neutral accents previous voice actresses and actresses employed while playing Wonder Woman. So those bucked the trends for a pretty A-List character.

Aquaman is supposedly half-Polynesian in the film too as the actor cast to play his father is Polynesian as well. And Jason Momoa said the diversity angle will play a big role in the movie.

[WontonGirl]

I just don't want it to be misconstrued, African-American male readership has always been strong. In the 60s through the 80s a large percentage of males were either into comics or sports. Just like their white counterparts. Some were into both like me and some of my cousins, most on both sides got out of comics much earlier in their lives but there has always been a very strong contingent during the biggest years of modern comic readership.

Also least anyone make the argument (I feel that it's next) that it's about even about representation based strictly per race population breakdowns, which is ridiculous because well, sports. I feel the point of the article is that for so many decades there were no seeds planted and now 40 years later when all the IP is making major entertainment bank, there isn't much comparable entertainment fruit having bare for black characters as leads. Yes there is this giant Black Panther tree and like most of the comic community I can't wait, I just worry it may be a one off. Hopefully itself becomes a franchise in a sense but the way they are mining these characters for stories they will have done a Game of Thrones type situation where the live-action stories have passed up the original material. Characters for the movies and shows will have to have come up with in real time and the canon, that people like to bitch about and hold so dearly, just won't be as strong as it's counterparts.



Sure, that's actually true in a sense, sometimes to the chagrin of some long term readers. Thing is though are they leads?

Brothas do like Batman, brothas do like Spiderman... sure it would have been nice to NOT have taken parts from Miles's story only to refresh Peter's going forward in the larger scheme but that's what happens, least anybody feels otherwise. People have brought up AOS, Supergirl and the CW gang but really, Jimmy BROlson/Guardian, Diggle and J'onn play the sides and background to Arrow and the blonde with powers. Hell, had Carl Lumbly not voiced Martian in all those years of the JL, who knows what he'd look like. Poor Mack in AOS plays the waay background to goofy assed Clark Gregg- who actually fuckin' died in the movies and still gets his part out front. I guess there's a sole black dude in the ensemble of the Runaways but that's a lot of pie to split. As far as Cloak and Dagger go- and In the past I've been a fan of that pairing, Cloak, like Spawn were black at one time. The writer was spot on when they brought up Legion. You could throw the Gifted right in there with it.

Again, I don't think anybody should be expecting a 1:1 situation, it's just that 9 or 10:1 is a glaring lack of representation in capes. I'm just speaking to black characters, beyond that of course the mileage is worse. If you know the history of characters like the Dell Comics Lobo who was before Panther then you know that there was a mandate that had enough bigoted support, that time was not kind to for sure kept down many character iterations. The Milestone guys knew this and to this day those characters have yet to have a significant resurgence, hope they will. Creators like Dawud Anyabwile knew this and started his own. Both of these started in the 90s. Can't wait to see Black Panther 1 (and hopefully a 2 and 3...) looking forward to Black Lightning for real and I'm ready for Cage season 2 on Netflix, all coming out in the same year. I also hope these are not as good as it gets.

And there it is. All of it!

It all boils down to "at the end of the day".....