Superhero narratives striving for diversity are drowned out by the status quo

[Confuzzled]

I just don't want it to be misconstrued, African-American male readership has always been strong. In the 60s through the 80s a large percentage of males were either into comics or sports. Just like their white counterparts. Some were into both like me and some of my cousins, most on both sides got out of comics much earlier in their lives but there has always been a very strong contingent during the biggest years of modern comic readership.

Also least anyone make the argument (I feel that it's next) that it's about even about representation based strictly per race population breakdowns, which is ridiculous because well, sports. I feel the point of the article is that for so many decades there were no seeds planted and now 40 years later when all the IP is making major entertainment bank, there isn't much comparable entertainment fruit having bare for black characters as leads. Yes there is this giant Black Panther tree and like most of the comic community I can't wait, I just worry it may be a one off. Hopefully itself becomes a franchise in a sense but the way they are mining these characters for stories they will have done a Game of Thrones type situation where the live-action stories have passed up the original material. Characters for the movies and shows will have to have come up with in real time and the canon, that people like to bitch about and hold so dearly, just won't be as strong as it's counterparts.

I think the Comics Code also played a big role to discourage creators from including African-American leads in the 50's and early-mid 60's, when most of these IP's were first created, as it had forced a ban of the EC Comics story Judgement Day simply because it featured an African-American protagonist.

So who knows... maybe some of these changes could have been the original plan all along, but not possible at the time due to unpredictable protocols and legal pressure.

[WontonGirl]

But Amazons are mythological figures beyond race in a way, so Diana could be any ethnicity. Gal Gadot already went against the blue-eyed version traditionally depicted in the comics. And her heavy accent, while arguably fitting for the actual character, wasn't like the neutral accents previous voice actresses and actresses employed while playing Wonder Woman. So those bucked the trends for a pretty A-List character.

Aquaman is supposedly half-Polynesian in the film too as the actor cast to play his father is Polynesian as well. And Jason Momoa said the diversity angle will play a big role in the movie.

STOP! Gal fit the look of Wonder Woman being a dark haired Brunette, White woman, just like in the comics. Would they had casted Gabrielle Union or Tika Sumpter to play Wonder Woman? Would they have had a red haired Wonder Woman? Would they have casted Ming-Na Wen to play her Mom? Or even Antiope. She would had been good in that role.

It's 2018. Let's speed this up here.

[Jokerz79]

And that's exactly what I'm saying. DC or Marvel wouldn't want to face that backlash and I am willing to bet that a lot of the General public is not ready for that either.

I mean, there was severe backlash when Iris and James was cast as Black on their respective TV shows. And they are just side characters.

And to be honest, they could make the whole entire cast of Supergirl non-White but at the end of the day, Kara will still be a White, Blonde, Woman. TPTB are not going to change that.

There are debates about Clark being without Trunks. Seriously though why make a traditionally white character another race when other options are available?

[Osiris-Rex]

Is Supergirl non White on the show?

Is Supergirl a woman? Having a woman as a lead character in a superhero show is also diversity. Diversity isn't just limited to having a Black-Asian, transexual, paraplegic as the lead character

[Da Boat]

They can't even create new white male straight heroes that sell at all.

That is true.

I always thought the solution was say have an Avengers or X-Men team with the popular favorites and add diverse new characters as supporting cast. That is how Vision become popular. They succeeded in having probably the first popular french hero in Gambit by making him part of the X-Men.

[KOSLOX]

That is true.

I always thought the solution was say have an Avengers or X-Men team with the popular favorites and add diverse new characters as supporting cast. That is how Vision become popular. They succeeded in having probably the first popular french hero in Gambit by making him part of the X-Men.

Gambit isn't French. He's creole, like that show where they paddle around Louisiana shooting at alligators.

[Da Boat]

Gambit isn't French. He's creole, like that show where they paddle around Louisiana shooting at alligators.

I have never seen any Creole people say "Chere".

Creole is a form of mutated french, it's just different expressions and accent.

As I understand, there are two spoken french in New Orleans:

The Cajun and Creole.

Cajun is mix of the french that came to Louisianna from France and the Acadian Canadians that were shiped there from Canada.

Creole is all of that mixed with Haitian culture.

Gambit is none of that.

He is part of a fictional higher class french society from New Orleans. Imagine if the Vampire Lestat World had never ended.

[Carabas]

He is part of a fictional higher class french society from New Orleans. Imagine if the Vampire Lestat World had never ended.

If he's from New Orleans then he can not any kind of French. He's an American. Going back several generation most likely.
Never mind that originally he was supposedly supposed to be a Summers.

[abulafia]

The thing is every super-hero story is about winning the lottery. So characters like Peter Parker start out as lower class, but they win the lottery of super-powers and then they indulge their fantasies. Which is what any lower class person would do.

The Spirit is one character I thought of who comes close to representing the lower class--but he's more of an underclass character. He comes from humble beginnings--and he's essentially Jewish, given he represents Will Eisner. He is a criminologist, so he did have enough money to get a higher education (but maybe on a scholarship program). And he ends up squatting in a graveyard with his African-American friend. The early stories represent him as an outlaw and he does date up in the world, with some swank women. But his attitude shows that he doesn't care about upper class status.

excellent analogy!
applies to a lot of SH and has interesting implactions.
on the other hand it does not apply to hank pym, hawkeye or ... dr. doom

[abulafia]

I have never seen any Creole people say "Chere".

Creole is a form of mutated french, it's just different expressions and accent.

As I understand, there are two spoken french in New Orleans:

The Cajun and Creole.

Cajun is mix of the french that came to Louisianna from France and the Acadian Canadians that were shiped there from Canada.

Creole is all of that mixed with Haitian culture.

Gambit is none of that.

He is part of a fictional higher class french society from New Orleans. Imagine if the Vampire Lestat World had never ended.

oh come on. x-men fake foreign language bits are legendary cringe worthy.
they printed nightcrawler saying "my leibling" instead of liebling. (leibling is kind of an abomination of a word)
(english native speakers appear to have big problems wie "ie/ei". even on this board i read kevin fiege a lot)

gambit is a later generation than pete, kurt or sean. seems like they never bothered to hire some ligustic editor/counsel

[Midvillian1322]

I always thought creole were a blending of Cajun and Hatian culture. Like my uncle would use it to descrine light skinned black girls. Like he would always say Beyonce is one sexy thick creole. So yea i blame him for any misconceptions i have.

[Da Boat]

If he's from New Orleans then he can not any kind of French. He's an American. Going back several generation most likely.
Never mind that originally he was supposedly supposed to be a Summers.

Being French doesn't mean you come from France. Like being English doesn't mean you come from England. If I'm French and meet someone that speaks English I may say to someone "oh yea I met that English guy the other day". I don't mean that person came from England.

[WontonGirl]

Is Supergirl a woman? Having a woman as a lead character in a superhero show is also diversity. Diversity isn't just limited to having a Black-Asian, transexual, paraplegic as the lead character

Yes, Supergirl is a Woman. And we have had female led superhero shows before.

But I was really talking about race-based diversity. But I mean, hey, whatever. I still watch the show and love it and like Melissa in the role so

[Carabas]

Being French doesn't mean you come from France. Like being English doesn't mean you come from England.

Yes it does. It absolutely does mean that.

If I'm French and meet someone that speaks English I may say to someone "oh yea I met that English guy the other day". I don't mean that person came from England.

That makes no kind of sense whatsoever.

Person who speaks French is not the same as a person who is French. You speak English, but you are not English. You're a UnitedStatian.

[skyvolt2000]

If say Steve Rogers Cap is replaced by an homosexual character Cap, wouldn't it become just about that? In an average Cap story Cap is like oh there are bad guys, I have to stop them. If Cap is homosexual, there's gonna be issues about it in the books. And if there isn't, then why make the change at all?

How would anyone know Cap is a gay man if it's never made public?

Also you can tell a story without it being about him being a gay man. You can tell those stories without race or sexuality being an issue.

Example Static.
I own his entire Milestone run and cartoon series. Guess how many times RACE was made an issue.

We are talking 43 solo issues (series one), 8 New 52 issues and 53 cartoon episodes.

3 times.

1 where Static had to save Jewish churches from a militant black guy (3 issues-that have yet to see a trade)

2 times in the cartoon 1 where he dealt with Richie's racist Dad and one where Static was in Africa and talked about feeling comfortable among his own people.

That's it.

I think the issue many have with POC, LGBT & women-is because in the past we have seen stories when it was made about RACE or SEX in some A lister's book. Especially Peter Parker's book when Rocket Racer showed up.

So if one never read Static's book and only saw him in racism stories in say Batman-you get that fear.

From whatever diverse background comics readers come from, they are not in it for social debates, they just want to read good action stories. I would bet that most African-Americans don't want Cap to be replaced by Sam Wilson. I feel like it's just a small segment of the population that are like "hey let's replace these straight white male heroes". Why is it small? Cause if they were many, then you would just create these new diverse heroes all over they would sell like crazy.

New diverse characters are being made-the issue has ALWAYS been SOMEONE has an issue with them just as much as they would with Miles or Jane Foster.

Moon Girl is a NEW original character-she got more backlash than DC's Asian Superman. Who saw NONE.

Duke Thomas & Mosaic as well.

And as we seen with Marvel-you got folks who do not want books that do not star non straight white males. No matter how many of them crash and burn as books.