Superhero narratives striving for diversity are drowned out by the status quo

[Confuzzled]

STOP! Gal fit the look of Wonder Woman being a dark haired Brunette, White woman...

She's not white

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/yes-a...ople-of-color/

Also, what progress is a redhead Wonder Woman supposed to represent? As for Antiope being played by a WoC, eh it's not like Hollywood action movies are bursting with opportunities for older white actresses either, so I'm glad Robin Wright got her superhero moment at this point in her career.

[Jim Kelly]

I'm not sure how many people can be called "white" anymore. Not that "white" has ever really been a sensible term. Everyone has mixed genetics. And I'd guess, by today's standards, you couldn't really classify either Lois or Clark as "white" in LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN--given both Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher were from mixed families.

I feel embarrassed even talking about this junk, given it's the kind of narrow thinking that went on in Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa.

[Da Boat]

Yes it does. It absolutely does mean that.

That makes no kind of sense whatsoever.

Person who speaks French is not the same as a person who is French. You speak English, but you are not English. You're a UnitedStatian.

I don't think you understand what I mean at all. If i'm in a bar and everyone is speaking english and someone that speaks french from the same nationality as me has forgotten his hat and my friend is like hey dude, I think the french guy forgot his hat, he is not saying that because the guy is fron France, it's just easier to identify.

If I'm from Quebec I consider myself french toward non-french speaking people.

When I said Gambit is a french guy, I'm not saying he is from France, I'm just saying he speaks French!

[mathew101281]

I think it becomes very difficult to radically change any popular franchise after the first four years of its life. You can count on two hands the number of popular superheroes that successfully, implemented a drastic re imagining. And most of those were characters that no one cared about initially, (Daredevil, Swamp Thing etc.) , or established sidekicks that grew into the role. The first kind is more of a , "no one cares so we can do what ever we want " situation. And the latter is a logical progression of a character. I think People are more likely to accept X23 as Wolverine then RiRi Williams as Ironman for just that reason. Another problem I see is that I feel the publishers rush these characters into marque roles way to soon. Cyborg I feel has this problem. For most of Cyborg's existence he was the fourth most popular character on his team at best. Then DC decided to pick him as their diversity poster boy. This brings up the question , are characters popular because they are pushed, or do characters show themselves to be popular and thus get pushed? Harley Quinn is a prime example of the latter, she started off as a one off character, but caught on with the fans. I can't really think of a character who was made popular by being pushed by the publisher.

[Confuzzled]

I think it becomes very difficult to radically change any popular franchise after the first four years of its life. You can count on two hands the number of popular superheroes that successfully, implemented a drastic re imagining. And most of those were characters that no one cared about initially, (Daredevil, Swamp Thing etc.) , or established sidekicks that grew into the role. The first kind is more of a , "no one cares so we can do what ever we want " situation. And the latter is a logical progression of a character. I think People are more likely to accept X23 as Wolverine then RiRi Williams as Ironman for just that reason. Another problem I see is that I feel the publishers rush these characters into marque roles way to soon. Cyborg I feel has this problem. For most of Cyborg's existence he was the fourth most popular character on his team at best. Then DC decided to pick him as their diversity poster boy. This brings up the question , are characters popular because they are pushed, or do characters show themselves to be popular and thus get pushed? Harley Quinn is a prime example of the latter, she started off as a one off character, but caught on with the fans. I can't really think of a character who was made popular by being pushed by the publisher.

From the 90's onwards: Jubilee, Bane, Damian, Kamala, Miles.

And for all of her popularity, Harley Quinn was pushed by Dini & Timm since BTAS. There was a time in the mid 00's when they did not push her as much when her popularity went through a slight lean period. But then she bounced back with the Arkham games.

[Carabas]

When I said Gambit is a french guy, I'm not saying he is from France, I'm just saying he speaks French!

That is not really how it works.

[Carabas]

From the 90's onwards: Jubilee, Bane, Damian, Kamala, Miles.

And for all of her popularity, Harley Quinn was pushed by Dini & Timm since BTAS. There was a time in the mid 00's when they did not push her as much when her popularity went through a slight lean period. But then she bounced back with the Arkham games.

What's the difference here between pushing and just putting them in great stories and have people like them? Because I feel there should be one.

[Confuzzled]

What's the difference here between pushing and just putting them in great stories and have people like them? Because I feel there should be one.

TBF, people usually only say "push" when it's a character they personally dislike. They are far more forgiving when it's a character they actually like. I've never bought the "organic way" of developing characters excuse to discourage the promotion of some diverse characters. "Organic development" is a highly subjective concept, and there is always a way to argue for or against the "organic" appearances of characters. Especially in make believe stories about Boom Tubes and superpower gifting radioactive spiders.

It's for that reason that I have begun to use the word "push" in a neutral sense. It is practical to promote characters you want to catch on. In modern times, you cannot expect a character to just "catch on" without any promotion or push. This isn't the 30's anymore when seeing a man lifting a car on the cover of a magazine spinner comic is going to captivate you immediately.

[mathew101281]

From the 90's onwards: Jubilee, Bane, Damian, Kamala, Miles.

And for all of her popularity, Harley Quinn was pushed by Dini & Timm since BTAS. There was a time in the mid 00's when they did not push her as much when her popularity went through a slight lean period. But then she bounced back with the Arkham games.

Not to sure Any X Man is truly popular in their own right (outside of Wolverine) I’ll give you Bane, Miss Marvel and Miles though. I disagree with your assessment of Harley in the early 2000’s. I feel she was still crazy popular even then. (Go to any convention at the time and she would be everywhere) the latest up tick in her popularity isn’t from marginal character to popular one, but rather from popular character to one of the pillar characters in the DCU (sales wise)

[Osiris-Rex]

From the 90's onwards: Jubilee, Bane, Damian, Kamala, Miles.

And for all of her popularity, Harley Quinn was pushed by Dini & Timm since BTAS. There was a time in the mid 00's when they did not push her as much when her popularity went through a slight lean period. But then she bounced back with the Arkham games.

Seemed more like people liked the Harley Quinn character and they were just giving the people what they wanted. It's just like Batman. Is DC pushing Batman or is DC responding to the demand for Batman?

[Scott Taylor]

I think the overarching problem is that there is still segregation in society.

The status quo is more popular because its the status quo. It has nothing to do with racism if a white person tends to read more comics about white people. Its simply about what is more familiar and being easier to see themselves in the role they are reading about.

For racial diversity to really take off, you have to either push it or a character who is diverse has to just buck the trend and become popular.

And for that to happen, people have to become more familiar with people of other races. To not be segregated.

[Yaw]

She's not white

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/yes-a...ople-of-color/

Also, what progress is a redhead Wonder Woman supposed to represent? As for Antiope being played by a WoC, eh it's not like Hollywood action movies are bursting with opportunities for older white actresses either, so I'm glad Robin Wright got her superhero moment at this point in her career.

Wow we are still saying this BS. White is socio-poiitical term that can change over time from country to country. Sincee this is an American we go by American standards. By American standards Ashkenazi jews are white {census}.

[Yaw]

Gambit is Cajun not Creole.

[Yaw]

I'm not sure how many people can be called "white" anymore. Not that "white" has ever really been a sensible term. Everyone has mixed genetics. And I'd guess, by today's standards, you couldn't really classify either Lois or Clark as "white" in LOIS AND CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN--given both Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher were from mixed families.

I feel embarrassed even talking about this junk, given it's the kind of narrow thinking that went on in Nazi Germany and Apartheid South Africa.

also in just about every modern Western industrial nation.

[Midvillian1322]

Gambit is Cajun not Creole.

brother Vodoo is Creole iirc.