Batman & The Signal Mini Series Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[Godlike13]

Ya, this was not for me.

[JasonTodd428]

That's how I took it. It does not in any way imply he's better-trained than any of the other bats, and the rest of the issue supports that.

That was my other interpretation of the line and I might have stuck with that one IF Tony Patrick was the only name on the book since he's not known for acting like Duke is better than the others. As you say the rest of the issue supports that and Patrick's previous story with Duke, Role Call, also supports that. That's why I think that particular line doesn't fit in the scheme of the story nor does it fit with how Patrick has previously handled the character. In fact it seemingly goes against both. I found it jarring enough that it actually threw me completely out of the story when I read it to be honest. Since Patrick isn't know for treating the rest of the Bat Family like trash in his work and Snyder has a nasty habit of shilling his own creations in the worst way possible I strongly feel that he was the one who wrote that line in that way. THAT is why the line bothers me not the fact that the line exists.

(And Yes I do realize that I'm only speculating here but honestly that's how I feel about it.)

[K Nikk]

I didn't mention Dick, Damian or Jason. I mentioned the 5 (since we're about to lose Basil and he's the exception to what I'm talking about) non-leaders on the 'Tec team, several of whom have had their own personal HQs in the past.

Ok. I misinterpreted then. But I guess I don't get the issue. If others have had HQs of their own in the past, why does Duke having one say anything about them? They just showed he had issues keeping his work private the panels before, so it was shown why he needs his own space. He is working at a different time of the day than the others, so using their places doesn't make sense. He will have a different set of people he works with who will need somewhere to go as well (I assume). Anyway, I'm missing something I guess.

[JasonTodd428]

Ok. I misinterpreted then. But I guess I don't get the issue. If others have had HQs of their own in the past, why does Duke having one say anything about them? They just showed he had issues keeping his work private the panels before, so it was shown why he needs his own space. He is working at a different time of the day than the others, so using their places doesn't make sense. He will have a different set of people he works with who will need somewhere to go as well (I assume). Anyway, I'm missing something I guess.

I don't get the issue with Duke having a HQ either. I think it's great actually.

[Assam]

If Snyder's name wasn't on this, my brain might not have gone in this direction, but his getting an HQ comes off to me as Bruce considering him more worthy, that he doesn't need a team like the others.

[K Nikk]

If Snyder's name wasn't on this, my brain might not have gone in this direction, but his getting an HQ comes off to me as Bruce considering him more worthy, that he doesn't need a team like the others.

Ah ok. I'm just going by what is on the page; Snyder being involved didn't change that for me personally. I think Duke will have a team - the two that he was working with in his bedroom for example. So he won't be doing everything without a team, just not with the usual night-time team. My guess anyway.

I liked the brightness of this issue (and of the HQ!). Interested to see the next one.

[DragonPiece]

If Snyder's name wasn't on this, my brain might not have gone in this direction, but his getting an HQ comes off to me as Bruce considering him more worthy, that he doesn't need a team like the others.

But that is the case that the writing implies here. Duke doesn't need a team in day time Gotham because most of the action happens in the night.


Also, I just realized, they must have dropped the sub plot about Duke going to a new high school, unless that will happen in another issue.

[Aioros22]

That's how I took it. It does not in any way imply he's better-trained than any of the other bats, and the rest of the issue supports that

Something that the standalone story with Jason more than cements.

He`s acting by day because the biggest threats usually come out at night in Gotham. That`s pretty straightforward as simbolism goes.

[JasonTodd428]

If Snyder's name wasn't on this, my brain might not have gone in this direction, but his getting an HQ comes off to me as Bruce considering him more worthy, that he doesn't need a team like the others.

Snyder's name on the book was why I read that line the way I did but that's as far as it went with me.

1. Duke's getting a HQ didn't strike me as particularly odd because just about everyone has their own HQ anyway regardless of whether Bruce had any part in them. The Knights have the Belfry. Batman and Robin have the cave. The Outlaws have their HQ at Ma Gunns in Crime Alley (or rather over it at the moment). Dick has Bludhaven (although I guess that's not really a HQ per-say). There's nothing inherently odd about that to me. Nor is there anything strange in Bruce being the one to provide it to him since he has oftentimes supplied the others with weapons, tech and other things. Heck, he provided the Teen Titans with a Tower for crying out loud. He also would know that Duke, on his own, could not provide a HQ to himself beyond using his own room at home for one, which as we saw in the issue is not really the best solution given how secretive Bruce tends to be.

2. As to you second point really I hope I'm reading this wrong because you are seemingly inferring that being on a team is somehow makes a character less "worthy" then working alone. In other words that all of the others are somehow lesser because they have teams and that Duke is somehow "more worthy" because he doesn't have one as yet. Having a team doesn't equate to being "more worthy". I actually tend to equate it with a character moving beyond Bruce's shadow and into working independently of him.

[Assam]

Duke doesn't need a team in day time Gotham because most of the action happens in the night.

I have suspicions that this won't entirely be true by the end of the mini.

2. As to you second point really I hope I'm reading this wrong because you are seemingly inferring that being on a team is somehow makes a character less "worthy" then working alone. In other words that all of the others are somehow lesser because they have teams and that Duke is somehow "more worthy" because he doesn't have one as yet. Having a team doesn't equate to being "more worthy". I actually tend to equate it with a character moving beyond Bruce's shadow and into working independently of him.

No that's not what I meant. Under nearly all circumstances, I don't see anything wrong with being on a team as opposed to being a solo act. However, most teams don't operate directly under another hero. These characters aren't out of Bruce's shadow because they're being supervised by both him AND Batwoman. This team was originally formed as a 'boot camp', but that only lasted 1.5 arcs before being ditched. Since then, I've had no idea why this team even exists as a formal unit. My problem is that it feels like Batman is deciding "Duke, you're ready to have your own independent operation" while thinking to himself Maybe one day those guys at the Belfry will be as ready as Duke. To clarify the distinction again, there's a difference between a group of characters coming together and becoming a team vs Batman deciding whose gonna be on a team and whose gonna operate solo. Now yes, the team IS about to fall apart, but unless DC is launching a few new Bat books, everyone (save Basil and possibly Kate) will end up coming back together.

[Barbatos666]

No problem with the HQ, what a weird thing to nitpick lol.

[K Nikk]

My problem is that it feels like Batman is deciding "Duke, you're ready to have your own independent operation" while thinking to himself Maybe one day those guys at the Belfry will be as ready as Duke. To clarify the distinction again, there's a difference between a group of characters coming together and becoming a team vs Batman deciding whose gonna be on a team and whose gonna operate solo.

I think in this case, I agree with the others that the daytime is significantly less dangerous than nighttime in Gotham and therefore a solo Duke during the day isn't comparable to the threat faced by the characters operating at Night - which needs a team more often than not. Duke would NOT be assigned a solo night operation, and the other characters are needed more at night and therefore aren't assigned to solo day operations. Heck, normally the bat-family ignores the day time altogether, therefore Duke's solo day time operation is essentially "better than nothing" and not a promotion above longer-standing members. Just another perspective.

[Assam]

No problem with the HQ, what a weird thing to nitpick lol.

Dude, I still have a problem with Duke even getting to wear the Bat. I'm not exactly at my most unbiased here.

I think in this case, I agree with the others that the daytime is significantly less dangerous than nighttime in Gotham and therefore a solo Duke during the day isn't comparable to the threat faced by the characters operating at Night - which needs a team more often than not. Duke would NOT be assigned a solo night operation, and the other characters are needed more at night and therefore aren't assigned to solo day operations. Heck, normally the bat-family ignores the day time altogether, therefore Duke's solo day time operation is essentially "better than nothing" and not a promotion above longer-standing members. Just another perspective.

1. Again, I think they're going to end up showing just how dangerous the daytime really is.
2. If there were always things going on, why wasn't anyone doing this sooner?
3. You say the other characters are needed more at night. Okay, but the 90's Batkids don't have any obligations outside of the team. If the daytime isn't so bad as you guys are saying, you'd think one or two of them could just do a quick daily sweep.

[TheCape]

Ha, i was rigth, the family dinner was a dream .

[JasonTodd428]

My problem is that it feels like Batman is deciding "Duke, you're ready to have your own independent operation" while thinking to himself Maybe one day those guys at the Belfry will be as ready as Duke.

I don't think that's it at all but that's just my opinion. Like I said I find nothing at all unusual about any Bat connected character having a base of operations to work from since they ALL have one currently. If Duke is now living with an uncle instead of at the Manor where should his base of operations be? I think it is quite clear from this issue that he can't work out of his uncle's place so where else could he reasonably do so? I think this solved that problem neatly but again that's justly opinion.

To clarify the distinction again, there's a difference between a group of characters coming together and becoming a team vs Batman deciding whose gonna be on a team and whose gonna operate solo.

The only instance of Batman deciding whose gonna be on a team of Bat Family characters has been with the 'Tec group though. I can't think of any other time he's done something exactly like this. (Batman, Inc is close but it was mostly characters that I felt were not part of Batman's inner circle.) Before that he never really seemed all that interested in organizing a group like the Knights or in really forcing anyone to be on a team and he's never had any say when one of them has gone solo. That 's something they all have decided at one time or another to do on their own.