Batman & The Signal Mini Series Discussion Thread (SPOILERS)

[oasis1313]

Looked at it in the shop, found it not worth buying. Another Snyder-Sue, meh. Give him super-powers, give him his own HQ--Hell, let's just make him a god while we're at it. I give it my fabulous "Four Steel Forks Down the Throat" rating.

[ross61]

Anybody who still uses the term Mary-Sue is suspect as hell.

Loved this first issue.

[Iconic]

Read it.

Enjoyed it.

Really like the optics of a daytime Gotham.

Now a Duke Thomas/The Signal fan.

[Aahz]

I didn't mention Dick, Damian or Jason. I mentioned the 5 (since we're about to lose Basil and he's the exception to what I'm talking about) non-leaders on the 'Tec team, several of whom have had their own personal HQs in the past.

At least Tim and Duke might still have the HQs they had earlier in the new 52 (and the HQ of the Gotham Knights was anyway build by Tim).

I'm not really sure what Steph Situation is, and Cass seems apparently in this incarnation not even to use her own apartment.

But I would like also to get a convincing explanation why Duke is not a member of the Knights.

[Katana500]

But that is the case that the writing implies here. Duke doesn't need a team in day time Gotham because most of the action happens in the night.


Also, I just realized, they must have dropped the sub plot about Duke going to a new high school, unless that will happen in another issue.

Doesnt duke's cousin mention that school doesnt start for another week, maybe that means we will see the school somepoint in the future.

[skyvolt2000]

Didnt interest me at all and Duke is still useless in my eyes.

Bruce saying he trained longer with Duke over everyone else made me lol. It's Snyder and Patrick trying to make Duke the favorite.

That falls on DC not Duke.

It's DC's fault that they have never made the Batman time line CLEAR.

We don't know Dick's history because we have the Titans being around or not.

Jason what is his time line with Bruce? Tim same issue. Babs, Stephanie & Cassandra too. Even Batwoman.

The only person we saw start off from day one is Luke Fox.

Another issue where was all this training with Duke? We didn't see it in Batman and barely in All Star.

When the other started and trained with Batman-we SAW them in the each issue of Batman or Detective not one page cameos like Duke got.

We keep getting pitched something that is not being shown. Because someone thinks dumping Duke with Bat Jesus makes his a challenger to Peter Parker's little brother-Miles. Duke is not even a challenger for Falcon's little brother-Patriot.


The issue was fine to me. It was just too short and with two issues left-are we really going to get something worthwhile?

This would be a fine companion series to cover the background of Duke-if he was doing something in another book.

[marcotheblerd]

I thought it was a good first read. Im glad that he is a daylight hero, and they are establishing his supporting cast. My main problem is I want him to be his own character separate from the Bat family. He's going to be constantly compared to them, and alot of the resentment that people have for him comes from those comparisons. Its clear that people see him getting any kind of exposure as an attack on other Bat family members, and thats not fair to the character. Get him a new suit, without the Bat logos, and I will be cool with that. People will continue to hate on him for whatever reasons, but I thought this was a good start for the character.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

It was a good first issue but the pace was pretty fast so it's a quick read.

I was confused about Null's mention of the dial but if it is a connection to Dial H I'd be pretty stoked.

The dialogue about Duke being trained longer is grating to me because it simply isn't true. Batman only started training Duke seriously in Rebirth so not much time has passed compared to the others who have years under their belt.

[J. D. Guy]

I really loved this first issue of Batman and the Signal! It was forever coming, but it's finally here. Literally the only thing I disliked is how the issue has now made the fact that there's only going to be 3 of them more glaringly frustrating. I'm gonna need more than 3 of this, just based on the set-up alone.

The first page was as beautiful as ever. Just as I thought, Duke was feeling inadequate, and the art reflected that. We don't see his face until "he steps out of the others' shadows and into the light" in the last one. One thing I will say is that I believe Assam called it this time. It was a dream, more specifically a vision of some kind, and the heroes in it were just relaying things as he felt they would in his head, including Damian's nagging and Jason and Barb's telling him not to be so hard on himself. It was done so beautifully and poetically, I just loved it! And that's only the first page!

Then we go headfirst into action as Duke goes back-first into a bus. I was surprised at how abrupt it was, but it was very suitable. I didn't realized that those pages did come immediately after the "morning family breakfast discussion", but it makes sense to have the fight scene early to draw in the reader with a good punch. Or a good blast into a bus, as the case here is. The transition being abrupt actually works in the story's favor (likely meaning it was done on purpose), since it snaps Duke (and the readers) out of his reverie and into the action of the present.

And just like the first page, Duke continues to be self-reflective with more than a hint of self-deprecating. Apparently, this is his first [s]night[/s] day out, and he's having a rough of it. We finally get to see the new baddie's name, and he's calling himself Null, based on the negative energy he makes use of. He's a bit loopy, though, but still cognizant enough to know why he's picking a fight with the Signal, which seems to be because he senses a kinship between the two of them and is trying to make the Signal use his powers, though the latter is still all too new to their usage and control.

And ouch, again! Kudos to Hamner once more for making you really feel like Duke was getting the stuffing beating out him. Really, he was mostly out matched, and he barely survived. Were it not for his powers finally kicking in and cluing him into how Null's powers operates, who knows how it would have gone down.

Alas, it seems folks in this part of Gotham aren't appreciative of a hero's assistance, as Mr. Patrick lampshades the "hero by day concept". Oh, how naive these civilians are...

On the topic of newcomers, I wonder who this Aisi(sp?) person is? Is she completely new, like big cousin Jay, or is she from somewhere obscure and is now being used in an earnest fashion? Either way, we kinda know our daytime police informant. Maybe. She's caught up in her own plot (or more likely what she presumes to be her on plot), and may not be as amiable to supers as Gordon has long since become.

And speaking of newcomers, I was a little surprised at the creation of "Big Cousin Jay". Not angry or anything of the sort, mind you, just surprised. First we've heard of him, and while it's not impossible or even improbable that he'd be off Duke's radar through all the chaos, it's still convenient that he's never shown up at all while Duke was bouncing around foster homes in early We Are Robin and in Bruce's care during Rebirth to this point, though he does seem to be aware of the latter to some extent. Still, where was he? This is another moment where the 3 issue limitation rears it ugly head once more. I hope Tony Patrick will be able to delve into Jay here. There's a lot of potential in having a relative of Duke's who's not lost their mind, with regards to exploring his family beyond what Duke knows or cares to think on at any give moment.

Likewise, I wonder which side of the family he's on? His dad's? Or his mom's...?

I appreciate that we are going to dive into the mystery of Duke powers and whatever makes him and his mom's side of the family so special. Hope we can get to a good point on that front by the end of issue 3, if nothing else.

On another note, I was also surprised to see Riko and Izzy here! Very pleasantly surprised, in fact. It seems Duke's new girlfriend that was brought up by the writers from way back is herself not actually new. I'm kinda happy that she's not, really. I'd have lived otherwise, but I am super ecstatic that Tony Patrick is making use of the We Are Robin crew. Two of them, at least, so far. I'm hoping Dax and Dre aren't far behind. Also, it seems there's at least a tinge of envy in Riko's tone for Duke "graduating" while the others "didn't"... So many story plot threads being teased. So little time. T_T

Once again, I can't stress how happy I am to see that part of Duke's life in his solo! I had made my peace with their not being any time for that, but Mr. Patrick found a way to make it work!

Back to Duke, it had slipped my mind that they said Duke's getting his own HQ under the Fox Center, so it kinda had the intended awe effect when I saw it for the first time. Batman shows up for only 3 pages here (really more like 1, which was a two-page spread), but I loved how sure and proud he's shown to be of Duke and what he's capable of, even acknowledging his independent spirit, in light of Duke's wavering confidence since first discovering his powers. Bruce's reassuring smiles here just say so much, and combined with the words he says really makes you feel the bond between the two characters. In a way, it makes you feel like the two have been together longer and done more than how Tom King was developing their relationship in Batman (if you can call it that, with how little Duke was used).

Nice callback to the drawing one kid made of Duke in his old costume that we saw back in that All-Star backup where Duke visits the Center and runs into Izzy. (Maybe that's what led them to start going out together?)

A couple more things, but we finally see just where the Signal's name comes from. According to Duke (and Synder in a Washington Post interview), "the signal" is how they referred to the first Knight on the battlefield in medieval times. It works really well here, more so than Joker's accidental naming in the heat of the moment. If things pan out, the Signal will be the "first Knight" out during the day, as he leads into the remaining Gotham Knights' arrival onto the field of battle more prepared than they'd otherwise be at night. I also like that Duke coming up with the name showcases his otherwise subdued geeky/nerdy side.

I 'lol'ed at them for that final Lark tease before putting it away for good.

Last but least, I appreciated how they're potentially foreshadowing Duke becoming a leader once more, this time to super-powered Gotham teens. I may have misread the signals (ha!), but that's what I got from what Mr. Patrick laid down. If nothing else, though, he's definitely some kind of catalyst for them, as he makes the Juvie Arkham kids stronger by just being near them.

And that cliffhanger was so frustrating. I did not want the issue to end, once I really got into it, and that it did brings me one step close to the end. Man, do I wish this wasn't only 3 issues.


All in all, I loved this issue! It did not disappoint, and Mr. Tony Patrick once more shows he has what it takes to drive Duke's character and drive it forward. Seriously, he does so much good by Duke in a single issue than largely has been done for him in about half a year's time. Maybe even longer.

It should go without saying, but I'm eagerly waiting for issue 2, if not so eagerly anticipating the end.

[J. D. Guy]

Having gone through the other posts, I am seriously disappointed in how almost no one else wants to talk about what this issue actually did. Like, I think I'm the only person who even mentioned the characters' names. I'm barely the second person who mentioned Null's name, that's for sure.

Anywhere else, for any other book, we would be commenting and discussing about the goings on that actually happened, and speculating on the mystery of Duke's powers and their connection to the Arkham Juvie kids. Things like that. Anywhere else, for any other book...

Maybe I am spoiled rotten, but I felt this one felt a bit short in comparation to the most recent #1 I read from DC, Super Sons and Doomsday Clock.
This is such an easy book to define, a citizen of Gothan said it "Daytime is when this damned city supposed to be safe". That's it. Don't need to go full cosmic-level conspiracy right out of the bat.
Day time Gotham, Duke's relationship with the rest of the BatFamily, and him-batfamily-we are robins... I would take a step back and let those concepts build slowly. Like they say to writers, you can't put a character in mortal danger if people don't care for him. Duke deserved a better building on his series.

On this, you kind of have to realize that this isn't the first issue of an on-going series or a 12-issue maxi-series. It's the first part in a 3-part mini (shorter than the standard mini-series of 6 issues). To tell the story the way you would want would require way more time than what we have. Tony Patrick has to make due with the space he has to tell a complete story and showcase who Duke and The Signal are going forward. To his credit, in my opinion, he did a good job at making the best use of the time he had this issue.

That's how I took it. It does not in any way imply he's better-trained than any of the other bats, and the rest of the issue supports that.

This, in a nutshell. As I mentioned in my above post, Duke's lack of solo experience, and experience overall, caused him to barely get out his first fight with Null.

But some of the others don't need it as much, or wouldn't accept that from Bruce if offered. I couldn't see Nightwing accepting that offer, or Jason (?) - an independence thing. Damian has a HQ with Jon, and with Teen Titans, I don't see him needing a third one just for himself. Not wanting Duke to have something he needs that others do not need or wouldn't want doesn't feel fair - is he supposed to just work out of the bat cave? I can see Batman wanting the cave back to himself, and therefore setting Duke up elsewhere. I don't know.

I might have really misinterpreted stuff.

I'd say your takes and speculations are more spot on then some of the others, some of which, unfortunately including Assam's, have a history of assuming the worst with little to no provocation.

Ok. I misinterpreted then. But I guess I don't get the issue. If others have had HQs of their own in the past, why does Duke having one say anything about them? They just showed he had issues keeping his work private the panels before, so it was shown why he needs his own space. He is working at a different time of the day than the others, so using their places doesn't make sense. He will have a different set of people he works with who will need somewhere to go as well (I assume). Anyway, I'm missing something I guess.

Once again, I'd say you're spot on. Duke needing his own space for the role he's now adopting makes sense. This way, he can get done what he needs to get done without being entirely beholden by someone else's house rules and without drawing undue attention to the night time hangouts during the day.

So far, you're just about the only one who's willing to discuss and speak on what the issue presents, as opposed to some of everything else.

If Snyder's name wasn't on this, my brain might not have gone in this direction, but his getting an HQ comes off to me as Bruce considering him more worthy, that he doesn't need a team like the others.

You're the one putting that idea in your own head, though. The story itself doesn't support that. It's unfair to blame the character and the story and disavow them both because of it, something that's not even in the story.

Read it.

Enjoyed it.

Really like the optics of a daytime Gotham.

Now a Duke Thomas/The Signal fan.

Glad to have you on board!

Doesnt duke's cousin mention that school doesnt start for another week, maybe that means we will see the school somepoint in the future.

Precisely.

I thought it was a good first read. Im glad that he is a daylight hero, and they are establishing his supporting cast. My main problem is I want him to be his own character separate from the Bat family. He's going to be constantly compared to them, and alot of the resentment that people have for him comes from those comparisons. Its clear that people see him getting any kind of exposure as an attack on other Bat family members, and thats not fair to the character. Get him a new suit, without the Bat logos, and I will be cool with that. People will continue to hate on him for whatever reasons, but I thought this was a good start for the character.

I agree with you to a point, but it's not Duke's fault that so many use him as a vent for their frustrations with other characters. That's them and their perceptions, and divorcing a Batman-related character from Batman-related subjects doesn't do anything for the character that not being prejudiced against him in the first place wouldn't.

Other than that they need more than just 3 issues, there isn't anything wrong with the way they're going about Duke/The Signal of present. Also, in a sense, him having and developing his own daytime supporting cast does distance him the others in the family and allows him to be more his own character.

(Besides, Duke could do with more interactions with other Batfamily members and other DC heroes and characters in general, not less.)

It was a good first issue but the pace was pretty fast so it's a quick read.

I was confused about Null's mention of the dial but if it is a connection to Dial H I'd be pretty stoked.

We didn't have much time to dilly-dally, but I felt that the pace was pretty even. Definitely more so than I'd have pegged. Like, we got a look at Duke's current situation, both as the Signal and in his cousin Jay's home. They intro-ed Detective Aisi and managed to spend enough time on her to get you to want to know more about her situation, as well as to begin learning what kind of person she is. Last but not least, they managed to get the ball rolling on the mystery of Duke's powers, while also opening the way to a conspiracy in Gotham that's happening under everyone noses in broad daylight. All while bringing back and re-integrating two characters from Duke's past into his present.

A lot got done here, which made it feel more evenly paced than it otherwise would have. More over, it helped make it filling while also making you long for more.

[Katana500]

What are your predictions for the next issue J D Guy Im interested to see where other people think the story will go

[J. D. Guy]

What are your predictions for the next issue J D Guy Im interested to see where other people think the story will go

Based on the synopsis for the #2, I'd say a we might get see Bruce doing corporate stuff for a bit, but not too much. I'd also say this we'll be the point where the Signal and Detective Aisi first meet. When they do, they'll hopefully compare notes so as to gain a better insight on what's going on with these spontaneous meta activations.

I'm hoping they'll be able to spare some time for us to get know more about Jay, too, but we'll see.

What I'm really curious about is how exactly Signal's getting out of the ambush he's in.

[JasonTodd428]

Based on the synopsis for the #2, I'd say a we might get see Bruce doing corporate stuff for a bit, but not too much. I'd also say this we'll be the point where the Signal and Detective Aisi first meet. When they do, they'll hopefully compare notes so as to gain a better insight on what's going on with these spontaneous meta activations.

I would hope this will be the point that the Signal and Detective Aisi first encounter one another as well. I'm really interested in seeing what the Detective's angle is here. I'm wondering if she or someone she knows has had meta powers activated and that's maybe why she's involved with the investigation. I also wonder what her backstory is.

I'm hoping they'll be able to spare some time for us to get know more about Jay, too, but we'll see.

Yeah, me too. I'm like you in that I really want to know where the heck he was when Duke was bouncing between foster homes. He is ex-military so perhaps he was still in the military at the time and couldn't take him in right away but I do have to wonder if there is more to it than that.

What I'm really curious about is how exactly Signal's getting out of the ambush he's in.

I'm really wondering that too. He had enough trouble with just one meta. All I can say is that he better keep his head in the game and learn to use those powers of his quick or he's likely to get curb stomped.


Man I really, really wish this was more than three issues. It doesn't seem like there's enough time to get too deeply into anything and I really want more.

[JudasFanny616]

Didn't read the issue yet, but I'm open to spoilers. What are exactly Duke's metahuman abilities?

[WontonGirl]

Anybody who still uses the term Mary-Sue is suspect as hell.

Loved this first issue.

LOL! Not to mention this was Tony's story and he wrote it.