Rogue and Gambit #1 Review

[JasonEsta]

What affairs?

No. I meant Rogue and Gambit..they were gossiping as they walked away with Psylocke smirking...kind of odd.

[JasonEsta]

Pixie thought Gambit and rogue looked 'hot' together and asked psylocke if she knew about when they were dating, and psylocke replies that she knows everything and pixie wants details and Betsy starts to tell pixie and armour about the picnic story while all three are walking out of the danger room. Take the original summary with a grain of salt, the OP is a well know Gambit/Romy hater...not a great summary of the book.

I know... he's talking about only telling the truth, when he's claiming the truth is she left her friends side when they were suffering when she didn't leave her friends side, period.

Hold on...they all fell...She rushed to Magneto at the end. You know this already. Lol.

[Sundowhn]

While frustration is warranted after years of abuse.

The problem is where Gambit is there is. There are only 2 ways to fix him rehab or retcon. We are getting rehab hopefully and we need to be in for the long haul if we want it fixed right. The insta negativity is probably worse for Gambit as it shuts down anything happening and writers hate the base. We need to accept he is in a bad place and needs to be built up and away from douche Gambit who is only good for screwing over. We all cry for long stories with value but kick and scream when we don't like the start we need to show some faith and the company needs to repay it with good stories but both need to start at once or it never works. If fandom runs at first shout we are faced with cancelations and good stories can never get going esp for characters who are in a bad way. We never saw where PAD was going because of the instant gratification requirement. If the company tells garbage fans run and it dies. We need all sides to come to the party and KT is giving it a fair go and could use support with out base negativity shutting it down. If this tanks and the way Ast is going we may end up with Gambit in Limbo again esp if Red tanks. We need to let stories get going without blasting it esp if we want to see more. If this takes off it is harder for them to screw him esp if when they try to sales drop but we need a good selling series to secure GAmbit a foot hold. KT likes the character she is just starting from where life put him.

I think a fundamental problem with the character was his concept to start with. He's a thief. Part of the associated occupational hazard is also being a liar. Both these things tend to land him pretty solidly in the creep category, which is reinforced by not accepting Rogue's rejection.

If he's given a makeover, philosophically speaking, I'm not sure he'd be Gambit any longer, would he? I'm really curious about this. Other characters have had an aspect revamped or tweaked, to make them more acceptable -- Wolverine's policy on killing, for example -- but I can't recall where the whole concept of what motivates them has been scrapped in favor of something else.

[JasonEsta]

The fun Gambit of old before all the angst was charming and had his own little mysteries. They devolved those mysteries into Belladonna and a Sinister past. So what he needs to progress has always been easy to see...turn him into a full villain. He should of stayed with Sinister back in 07 in Messiah Complex. Would of been much more interesting than what he is today..I remember he was damn near shaking in his boots in front of Miss Sinister in X 23's book while Laura didn't want to back down. Whst kind of hero is that? Lol.

[Xelossik]

Doesn't Deadpool still kill a fuck ton of people when he is not in the Avengers book? Guess it is easier for Rogue to forgive an Avenger and murderer.

It is a peculiar feature of Rogue and Gambit that Rogue holds Gambit to a higher standard than just about every other lover she has had. The girl bangs Mags and makes out with Deadpool but somehow thinks it is ok to scold Gambit for being a petty thief.

Of course it is the writers fault but that is the biggest sticking point. It would be one thing if Rogue were a saint and treated everyone like she treats Gambit but she curiously does not.

I think that if Rogue and Deadpool had loger relationship... They would clash about this problem sooner or later.

You seem confused. The poster was talking about how Gambit was a thief to imply Rogue can't trust him.

I didn't.
I wrote that Gambit had secrets and that he was suffering because of them. That was main part of trust.
Being a thief... Especially leader of thief guild... They weren't together because of this reason for some time... right?
Did You forget this?

It is fair game to point out how she holds thieves to a higher standard than murderers.

She has hopes that anyone can be better.
I am pretty sure that Deadpool wouldn't be able to live with her for long without making some stupid mistakes(look at SE for example).

My response which is entirely fair given the above is why is she concerned about Gambit being a thief but not Mags and Deadpool being murderers.

both are wrong
in both situations Rogue should give them chance, because she believes that people can change
in both situations they will still kill people or steal stuff and relationship will end

Rogue can forgive him any number of times but it won't change anything. Gambit will still be a Gambit and they will break up.

The problem I think comes from the idea of Rogue still not wanting to be with Gambit again because she doesn't trust him and because of the things he has done in his past, or judges him harshly for being a thief, but is still willing to be with someone like Magento despite all his murders and all he has done in contrast. I mean despite what Rogue said in that page you posted from that issue of Legacy she still slept with him and entered into a romantic relationship with him.

Though after Legacy despite all that happened with Magneto and other things I don't think Rogue and Gambit should have trust issues anymore. I think all of their trust issues and past problems were resolved in Legacy when Gambit risked his life saving her and her getting her powers under control finally. Gambit also became her longest standing team member of that book and stuck with her despite being rejected for Magneto after Schism.

She had different memories then... Do You think that wirters should ignore her powers?

Issue 1
That was good and solid. Good start.

[AbnormallyNormal]

This is basically a humorous like couples/relationship type comic. Perhaps there will also be superheroing as well.

I agree about it feeling very retro/nostalgic like it's trying to "reset" the whole Gambit/Rogue situation or something. We will find out more what the book's endgame is I guess.

[Malachi]

Gambit is still running after Rogue
Rogue is still brooding about not having control of her powers
I think the baggage between them is really minor in the grand scheme of comics
I mean what is really keeping Rogue away from Gambit? Does she trust him? Will he stick around? etc
No writer has ever really tackled their problems like this so KT deserves all the praise for doing it. A lot of couples in Marvel need couple's therapy Rogue and Gambit aren't the only ones but I will note once you get it out there I don't want to read about Rogue being this insecure again.

For some reason Rogue is only ever this insecure around Gambit. She's less fun southern belle and more emo moody stick in the mud
I'd love to see that get addressed. Why is she so afraid of Gambit but not anyone else

If I where to try to create an answer it would probably be that she cares more for Gambit and therefore holds him to a higher standard and opens up more to him then others. For a girl with a lot of issues on trusting, intimacy and opening up that probably scares her more then any apocalypse, sinister or brood fight.
The real answer is more probably changing writers and editorial staff at Marvel.

[passerby]

One really technical thing stood out to me and it is really key in understanding the problem Gambit fans have, or at least I have, with their relationship and how they are written.

To me the issue itself was centered on Rogue and Gambit is just along for the ride. That has been a huge problem for Gambit in stories when he is with Rogue. Of course the reason for this is because all of the agency and story is built around Rogue and how Rogue feels. That unfortunately is where all the driving force is because there is no mystery or agency with Gambit's character anymore. His entire character and motivation is built on how can he get Rogue to love him again. That is it and it has been incredibly damaging to the character over the years. He's with the X-Men because he wants Rogue to love him, he is on this mission because he wants Rogue to love him, and all of his actions are him trying to get Rogue to love him. I just don't understand what he gets out of this anymore other than being used as a prop so Rogue can bounce her story off of.

I mean I understand that the book is written for Romy fans who are nostalgic for their animated series dynamic. I enjoyed the two of them together back then, and his book did its best to dig up that nostalgia again, but they aren't those characters anymore and I think trying to write them like they are is regressive. Gambit pursuing her so frantically undermines all the development he has had since Legacy. Back in the animated series era it made sense for him to chase after her so hard because they had just met and the relationship was new. Then Rogue using her powers as an excuse to rebuff him falls flat because when she had control of her powers she still didn't want to be with him. She actually rejected him much more harshly than when she didn't have control.

I don't blame KT for it or anything and she wrote a book specifically for Romy fans which for them it delivered. Plus I just think that is what most people view as natural between the two, even if I find it old hat. Gambit trying to win Rogue over and Rogue’s feelings about it being the crux of the dynamic. It just isn’t an even split because Gambit’s side of the equation is solved and has been solved for years. So there is no story to tell from his perspective and he suffers as a character because of it. So Rogue and Rogue's feelings become the driving force of the story and Gambit slides into that supporting role that his fans find frustrating. I just wish it would be okay if Gambit has other interests or priorities when around Rogue and behaves more balanced in his motivations, especially given their history, or Rogue pursing Gambit and trying to win his love for once, but that is a dead end and no one will write that.

tl;dr

I think you hit the nail on the head with your point about Rogue having all the agency and Gambit being her satellite, and all the character and narrative problems that follow.

It really should have been clear that this would be the case right from the start based on the title of the comic - Rogue and Gambit. Just as in Avengers vs X-Men, where the group that is named first, Avengers, were the heroes and the X-Men the villains, and Inhumans vs X-Men where the Inhumans were the ones Marvel was trying to portray sympathetically and the X-Men were once more the villains, putting Rogue before Gambit in the title should tell readers that Rogue is the actual protagonist with Gambit as her satellite.

Has Kelly Thompson's body of work consisted mainly of female protagonists?

Also, is the series having the same artist for all the issues, or will the artists be playing musical chairs?

[NicoElFreako]

Once again Xelo was implying Rogue has a problem with Gambit being a thief. I responded essentially questioning that logic because she has no problem with murderers.

The fundamental problem with Rogue and Gambit is that their baggage is minor shit in the world of comics. She goes on and on about baggage with Gambit but then sleeps with Mags with Carey purposefully ignoring their baggage.

Deadpool was a psychopath at one point that killed innocent people. Where is their discussion about that?

So all this supposed baggage is just one big cop out.

Like honestly, WTF is she still mad about and why can't she just act like an adult and say it? And until she does why can't Gambit stop sexually harassing his ex at work and stick to his harbor speech. He was suppose to be waiting on her to come to him not pestering her about it incessantly.

This shit is so pathetic. It is like reading 12 year olds arguing. In fact I think I was 12 when I first started reading about their baggage.

When will it end? Are my grandkids going to be reading about how Rogue can't trust Gambit because he is a thief as she is dating Apocalypse?

Your analogies are faulty, and you assume premises without offering sufficient evidence. As a reader of Rogue, I feel confident that she has forgiven him for a lot of things, maybe even everything. I don't think she is still mad. But she can forgive him and still believe a relationship isn't good for them. She always speaks positively about gambit and refers to him as one of her best friends. But by no means does that mean she has any obligation to be in a relationship with him. And your comparisons with DP AND mags are flawed.

DP: was NEVER in a relationship with him. Does not need to believe he is a wonderful person to be on a team with or learn to trust him. Both he and mags were at the tail end of redemption arcs, where they were atoning for past mistakes. But Gambit....NOT REFORMED. Proudly continues thieving and living a life which Rogue would reasonably feel is inconsistent with what she wants.

And when you say she should forgive a person who she has a deep and complicated past with, before she is morally allowed (I know that wasn't your exact wording, but I feel adequately summarizes your stance) to be with other guys, than you are kinda policing her.

Also, I am quite surprised y'all think she is being treated as a saint. One of the most poignant moments in the book, to me, is when he says the lone about having to carry all of the weight of their history. THAT is not only an excellent criticism of Rogue, but is one I can honor as a Rogue fan which genuinely makes me sympathize with Gambit. KC is legit the first writer to make me sympathize with him in a very, very long time. And also, you talk about hypocrisy? You know good and well Gambit is with girls left and right, and you would probably respect this as shallow relationships...he doesn't need to know or consider the character of the girls he gets with. Why should rogue?

Only when she gets in a serious relationship with an ONGOING criminal who is not reformed (Or at least portrayed so by writers as mags and DP were) and who is as untrustworthy as Gambit can you call her a hypocrite with any chance of validity.

[NicoElFreako]

Oh, and Rogue DID have a problem with DP's past, even asking cap to take him off the team. So...

[NicoElFreako]

Sorry, but I keep remembering new things...ALSO during AXIS, Rogue ended things completely with Magneto and communicated disgust and betrayal from his actions when he killed red skull. So yeah...she held him to a high standard as well...so not hypocritical. If there was a time when she was woth mags and he was actively murdering not itself defense or defense of another, then it has been half a decade, and she has had a lot of character moments to grow. I don't think she would be in a relationship with anyone who was an intentional, active, not reformed criminal.

[Sparta]

I agree with all the positive reviews for this book. A lot of fun and hilarious.
Too bad it's not an ongoing, or even a 12-issue series at least.

[Badou]

She had different memories then... Do You think that wirters should ignore her powers?

The AoX memories weren't brought up once after the two entered into a romantic relationship. They are completely irrelevant, imo. Had Rogue just had a one night stand with Mags and used the memories as an excuse then you can continue to use them as an argument, but that didn't happen.

Also what do you mean about ignoring her powers? She had her powers under control for a while before she chose Magneto over Gambit and after breaking up with Magneto she still didn't want to be with Gambit while her powers were still in control. Which was all after telling him in Legacy that once her powers were dealt with the two could be together. Gambit stayed with Rogue on her Legacy team the whole time she was dating Magento too. Marvel not doing more with Rogue when she had control of her powers was a huge let down and them just putting her back into her old and tried role of being concerned about them again is a disappointment and regression I feel like.

[Badou]

Your analogies are faulty, and you assume premises without offering sufficient evidence. As a reader of Rogue, I feel confident that she has forgiven him for a lot of things, maybe even everything. I don't think she is still mad. But she can forgive him and still believe a relationship isn't good for them. She always speaks positively about gambit and refers to him as one of her best friends. But by no means does that mean she has any obligation to be in a relationship with him. And your comparisons with DP AND mags are flawed.

DP: was NEVER in a relationship with him. Does not need to believe he is a wonderful person to be on a team with or learn to trust him. Both he and mags were at the tail end of redemption arcs, where they were atoning for past mistakes. But Gambit....NOT REFORMED. Proudly continues thieving and living a life which Rogue would reasonably feel is inconsistent with what she wants.

And when you say she should forgive a person who she has a deep and complicated past with, before she is morally allowed (I know that wasn't your exact wording, but I feel adequately summarizes your stance) to be with other guys, than you are kinda policing her.

Also, I am quite surprised y'all think she is being treated as a saint. One of the most poignant moments in the book, to me, is when he says the lone about having to carry all of the weight of their history. THAT is not only an excellent criticism of Rogue, but is one I can honor as a Rogue fan which genuinely makes me sympathize with Gambit. KC is legit the first writer to make me sympathize with him in a very, very long time. And also, you talk about hypocrisy? You know good and well Gambit is with girls left and right, and you would probably respect this as shallow relationships...he doesn't need to know or consider the character of the girls he gets with. Why should rogue?

Only when she gets in a serious relationship with an ONGOING criminal who is not reformed (Or at least portrayed so by writers as mags and DP were) and who is as untrustworthy as Gambit can you call her a hypocrite with any chance of validity.

I'm sorry, but in Legacy when Gambit was on Rogue's team he was fully reformed. He wasn't a criminal. I don't think you can use that as an excuse. He was her longest standing team member and stood by her despite everything. He risked everything for her in MC, he stood by her in AoX, he stood by her in Schism, he stood by her when she chose Magneto over him, he stood by her when she left to go join the Jean Grey School with Wolverine, and he also stood by her when she broke up with Magneto before she left to go be an Avenger. I just don't understand how people can bring up trust issues after they went through all that. He also only went to be a thief again once Rogue left the X-Men to go join the Avengers. After she left Gambit had no real motivation to be with the X-Men anymore and went back to doing his own thing again since he couldn't follow her to the Avengers.

She can not like him being a thief because she worries about him but I don't think trust should be an issue between the two anymore because neither has anything to hide, especially if she is willing to trust Magneto after what he has done too. It just doesn't make sense to me for people to keep falling back on that after they went through everything they went through. I understand Rogue not wanting to be with Gambit romantically, her moving on to Magneto, Johnny Storm, and Deadpool if Duggan had it his way, is fine by me and makes sense. Gambit needs to do the same and move on as well, but I don't think trust should be a big issue between them anymore.

[planetxmen]

I like both Rogue and Gambit but I don’t like them together because that ship sailed long ago and was resolved.
This issue just made Gambit’s character even weaker. I really just wish he would move on. Again!