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  1. #181
    Mighty Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoov-E View Post
    The course correcting thing so far has just been a fan perception and taking a cancellation here and snippets of interviews and wanting to come to that conclusion much like your belief that they’re throwing things out there just cause when you can say all publishers have been doing that for decades. Just because something isn’t to your specific liking doesn’t mean they threw it out there just cause, this is akin to when folks kept screaming Marvel is purposely killing the X-Men despite Marvel consistently putting out 4+ X-Men comics a year
    Sales figures don't lie.

    The sudden and almost drastic about face isn't a coincidence either. In less then 3-4 months we have how many resurrections of characters, old titles, and so on?

    The talking about throwing things out goes well beyond ANDA but I do believe it is a symptom of it. The whole thing could have been handled better so old and new fans could have been very happy. Which makes the experience disappointing.

  2. #182
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
    LOL actually the "topic" was for "people who joined from the ANAD time frame" (Not from the 80's, 70's, 60's, 2000's, etc) to comment on if they will continue to read Marvel Comics now that they are returning to the status quo, seeing as they most likely join due to the increase diversity and legacy characters. But seeing as the topic has been twisted and turn plus tons of "Non ANAD" fans wanting to give their two cents on why they dislike ANAD, it's not surprising that the original purpose of this thread has become so confused.
    To clarify, I was born in 91 and grew up in the 00's, where I started reading comics. Got board with them when I went to college, but was drawn back in after discovering Blue Marvel, which lead me to the Ultimates. To ease my way back into things I went back and started with Marvel Now!, the 2012 relaunch, and am reading forward. I am now subscribed to Marvel Unlimited and try to read as much and as often as I can. What I was saying is that this will stop if Marvel gets too far away from doing what it was between 2012 and now in regards to diversifying its portfolio. Blue Marvel, Spectrum, Moon Girl, Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, Riri Williams, America Chavez, Cindy Moon; they caused me to fall in love with Marvel all over again(this was Thor, originally). If they get away from emphasizing diversity in their lineup I will be sorely disappointed.

  3. #183
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Sales figures don't lie.

    The sudden and almost drastic about face isn't a coincidence either. In less then 3-4 months we have how many resurrections of characters, old titles, and so on?

    The talking about throwing things out goes well beyond ANDA but I do believe it is a symptom of it. The whole thing could have been handled better so old and new fans could have been very happy. Which makes the experience disappointing.
    You're arguing that Marvel intended Tony Stark, Steve Rodgers, and Logan to go away forever?

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Sales figures don't lie.

    The sudden and almost drastic about face isn't a coincidence either. In less then 3-4 months we have how many resurrections of characters, old titles, and so on?

    The talking about throwing things out goes well beyond ANDA but I do believe it is a symptom of it. The whole thing could have been handled better so old and new fans could have been very happy. Which makes the experience disappointing.


    Direct sales don’t mean squat anymore no matter how much die hard fans and retailers want because those days are long gone. The fact that Moon Girl/Squirrel Girl are still around much to the outrage of “old fans” is evident since they sell more in other markets then the most beloved old fan go to character


    The returns haven’t been sudden but then that would require people who have been upset over these changes they felt were just as sudden but why read when it’s easier to complain


    Nothing will please the old fans who constantly complain except the belief that they and only they are being catered to with the same old stuff they’ve enjoyed for years with zero changes or the threat of new fans coming about
    Last edited by Smoov-E; 01-10-2018 at 06:12 PM.

  5. #185
    Mighty Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    You're arguing that Marvel intended Tony Stark, Steve Rodgers, and Logan to go away forever?
    No, not at all. I'm saying the fact that so many coming back at one time is out of the norm and a drastic move, which is a clear sign that something wasn't going right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoov-E View Post
    Direct sales don’t mean squat anymore no matter how much die hard fans and retailers want because those days are long gone. The fact that Moon Girl/Squirrel Girl are still around much to the outrage of “old fans” is evident since they sell more in other markets then the most beloved old fan go to character


    The returns haven’t been sudden but then that would require people who have been upset over these changes they felt were just as sudden but why read when it’s easier to complain


    Nothing will please the old fans who constantly complain except the belief that they and only they are being catered to with the same old stuff they’ve enjoyed for years with zero changes or the threat of new fans coming about
    Smoov.....if the sales were that good digitally why would/are most of the replacement characters getting pushed out of their roles? If something is working you don't shorten or end it so soon. You keep it going until the well runs dry.

    Wolverine, Professor X,Captain America , Jean Grey and others all came back in less the 3-4 months. Usually, there is only one to two returns per-year, this year we are getting close to or more then ten. That is a direct result of ANDA. Looking at sales, the people who where removed from the company, and so on it couldn't be clear why this is all happening as quickly as it is.

    I think your last statement is very false. I know I personally would have enjoyed ANDA more if it wasn't handled how it was. Like I said many times on CBR, I like Cho more than I like Banner. I also like the Falcon more then I ever will like Captain America. There are other things about ANDA that I enjoyed as well. I am sure that most fans as a whole would have took to ANDA better if it combined the old stuff with the new stuff. The fact that ANDA almost alienated a lot of them was the problem. What made matters worse was that a lot of the stories were written in a way to encourage newer fans to think the older characters where lessor/inferior, which was completely unnecessary. The end result left a very large divide between the readership. When it really could have brought them together.


    ANDA needed a better execution. If handled correctly it could have led to a long lasting change at Marvel that made most fans happy.

  6. #186
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    No, not at all. I'm saying the fact that so many coming back at one time is out of the norm and a drastic move, which is a clear sign that something wasn't going right.
    It's out of the norm for Marvel's flagship characters to return? Are you serious?

  7. #187
    Mighty Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    It's out of the norm for Marvel's flagship characters to return? Are you serious?
    Read the whole thing. You will get the more out of it.

  8. #188
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Read the whole thing. You will get the more out of it.
    The gist of your argument is that Marvel bringing back their flagship heroes is evidence that their ANAD initiative was a failure, no? I'm sure their timely reintroduction has nothing to do with them being featured in two of the biggest blockbuster movies in film history over the next year.

    Jean Grey and a few other flagships were brought back in 2012 for Marvel Now as well. Does that suggest the era before ANAD was a failure as too?
    Last edited by Harsh Lesson; 01-10-2018 at 11:58 PM.

  9. #189
    Mighty Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsh Lesson View Post
    The gist of your argument is that Marvel bringing back their flagship heroes is evidence that their ANAD initiative was a failure, no? I'm sure their timely reintroduction has nothing to do with them being featured in two of the biggest blockbuster movies in film history over the next year.

    Jean Grey and a few other flagships were brought back in 2012 for Marvel Now as well. Does that suggest the era before ANAD was a failure as too?
    Again, read the whole thing. You will get more out of it that way.

  10. #190
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Again, read the whole thing. You will get more out of it that way.
    I did, twice.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    So somehow this is all about you?
    A maybe in that person's case.

    Also....he might be someone like GrizzlyMags (assuming the latter guy is the type of person I think he is).

    "So I take it they pulled this lightning guy out of obscurity just for the sake of diversity."

    Or maybe, just maybe, it's ALSO because the creator(s) were interested by the character after seeing him and wanted to use him for the event (and seeing as the character, Lightning, hadn't been used in a long time and that people keep bringing up how Marvel should just keep using the same POC chars instead of creating new ones for their laughable arguments/excuses to not give ANY and ALL POC chars a chance, someone like you should be over-enjoyed with Lightning getting spotlight after spending his years in comic book limbo).
    Last edited by Frostbite883; 01-11-2018 at 11:21 PM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    No, not at all. I'm saying the fact that so many coming back at one time is out of the norm and a drastic move, which is a clear sign that something wasn't going right.

    Wolverine, Professor X,Captain America , Jean Grey and others all came back in less the 3-4 months. Usually, there is only one to two returns per-year, this year we are getting close to or more then ten. That is a direct result of ANDA.

    I think your last statement is very false. I know I personally would have enjoyed ANDA more if it wasn't handled how it was. Like I said many times on CBR, I like Cho more than I like Banner. I also like the Falcon more then I ever will like Captain America. There are other things about ANDA that I enjoyed as well. I am sure that most fans as a whole would have took to ANDA better if it combined the old stuff with the new stuff. The fact that ANDA almost alienated a lot of them was the problem. What made matters worse was that a lot of the stories were written in a way to encourage newer fans to think the older characters where lessor/inferior, which was completely unnecessary. The end result left a very large divide between the readership. When it really could have brought them together.

    ANDA needed a better execution. If handled correctly it could have led to a long lasting change at Marvel that made most fans happy.

    Smoov.....if the sales were that good digitally why would/are most of the replacement characters getting pushed out of their roles? If something is working you don't shorten or end it so soon. You keep it going until the well runs dry.
    How do you know this was NOT the plan all along?

    Us Agent was Capt America for 333-350. 17 issues

    Bucky wore the suit for 50 issues

    But Sam as Cap America for 30 issues is a problem?

    James Rhodes was Iron Man from 282-290 and 167-192

    Riri under a DIFFERENT name is an issue but not Victor Doom.

    Erik Masterson was Thor from 432-459


    Looking at sales, the people who where removed from the company, and so on it couldn't be clear why this is all happening as quickly as it is.
    Lets talk sales

    Ebay where I can get books for 50-90% off the cover price? Sorry I don't feel like paying $75 for the entire Allstar Batman run from a store when I can get it for $20 on Ebay.

    Amazon where I can get all of Sam Wilson's trades for $14 instead of $20 at the comic book store.

    Half Price Books where I can get the LATEST issue of Teen Titans, Cyborg, Hal Jordan, Batman, Aquaman & Flash for half the price instead of full price at the comic book store.

    The OTHER comic book store who has a 25 cent sale every 4 months and I end up getting 100 DC/Marvel books for $25 instead of the $500 they cost elsewhere.

    Midtown Comics with weekly sales who also EAT AWAY at a local comic book stores.

    Smoove is talking about OVERALL sales not the comic book store who can cherry pick what gets sold.

  13. #193
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    How do you know this was NOT the plan all along?

    Us Agent was Capt America for 333-350. 17 issues

    Bucky wore the suit for 50 issues

    But Sam as Cap America for 30 issues is a problem?

    James Rhodes was Iron Man from 282-290 and 167-192

    Riri under a DIFFERENT name is an issue but not Victor Doom.

    Erik Masterson was Thor from 432-459




    Lets talk sales

    Ebay where I can get books for 50-90% off the cover price? Sorry I don't feel like paying $75 for the entire Allstar Batman run from a store when I can get it for $20 on Ebay.

    Amazon where I can get all of Sam Wilson's trades for $14 instead of $20 at the comic book store.

    Half Price Books where I can get the LATEST issue of Teen Titans, Cyborg, Hal Jordan, Batman, Aquaman & Flash for half the price instead of full price at the comic book store.

    The OTHER comic book store who has a 25 cent sale every 4 months and I end up getting 100 DC/Marvel books for $25 instead of the $500 they cost elsewhere.

    Midtown Comics with weekly sales who also EAT AWAY at a local comic book stores.

    Smoove is talking about OVERALL sales not the comic book store who can cherry pick what gets sold.
    And then there’s Marvel Unlimited...

  14. #194
    Mighty Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    How do you know this was NOT the plan all along?

    Us Agent was Capt America for 333-350. 17 issues

    Bucky wore the suit for 50 issues

    But Sam as Cap America for 30 issues is a problem?

    James Rhodes was Iron Man from 282-290 and 167-192

    Riri under a DIFFERENT name is an issue but not Victor Doom.

    Erik Masterson was Thor from 432-459




    Lets talk sales

    Ebay where I can get books for 50-90% off the cover price? Sorry I don't feel like paying $75 for the entire Allstar Batman run from a store when I can get it for $20 on Ebay.

    Amazon where I can get all of Sam Wilson's trades for $14 instead of $20 at the comic book store.

    Half Price Books where I can get the LATEST issue of Teen Titans, Cyborg, Hal Jordan, Batman, Aquaman & Flash for half the price instead of full price at the comic book store.

    The OTHER comic book store who has a 25 cent sale every 4 months and I end up getting 100 DC/Marvel books for $25 instead of the $500 they cost elsewhere.

    Midtown Comics with weekly sales who also EAT AWAY at a local comic book stores.

    Smoove is talking about OVERALL sales not the comic book store who can cherry pick what gets sold.
    Your making hefty accusations and assuming a heck of a lot in this post.

    Your also pulling in topics that don't necessarily relate to each other.

    You also typed all of this for nothing because it changes nothing. If a product is doing well as in making money they are not going to pull that product. PERIOD.

    If people really wanted ANDA they would be up in arms right now and no one really is.

    That is the point. ANDA didn't sell.

    Not because it was diverse.

    Not because it involved new characters.

    It didn't work because of it's execution. Marvel alienated it's core fan base by how they choose to promote and push the characters during ANDA and it suffered because of it.

    They are now trying to course correct.

    It couldn't be more obvious.


    Yes. I did type my post this way on purpose. I hope by mimic you that you and others will read what have written and stop typing in terms of me being against anything. And that you will realize that if ANDA was doing really well they would not have gotten rid of the principals behind it. Especially, not so soon. They would be expanding on it instead.

    It's not difficult to understand.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 01-12-2018 at 10:08 AM.

  15. #195
    Fantastic Member Harsh Lesson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    Your making hefty accusations and assuming a heck of a lot in this post.

    Your also pulling in topics that don't necessarily relate to each other.

    You also typed all of this for nothing because it changes nothing. If a product is doing well as in making money they are not going to pull that product. PERIOD.

    That is the point. ANDA didn't sell.

    Not because it was diverse.

    Not because it involved new characters.

    It didn't work because of it's execution. Marvel alienated it's core fan base by how they choose to promote and push the characters during ANDA and it suffered because of it.

    They are now trying to course correct.

    It couldn't be more obvious.


    Yes. I did type my post this way on purpose. I hope by mimic you that you and others will read what have written and stop typing in terms of me being against anything. And that you will realize that if ANDA was doing really well they would not have gotten rid of the principals behind it. Especially, not so soon. They would be expanding on it instead.

    It's not difficult to understand.
    Nothing you’re arguing here so based In fact.

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